On episode 30, we have Victoria Lauture Ducker, host of New Mommy at 40 and myself on to discuss pregnancy loss. Next week we are back to sharing pregnancy stories over 40. I think it’s important we as women talk about loss. Victoria had a great pregnancy at 40 and is a mother to a three year old, but she has also dealt with loss. We shared her pregnancy story at 40 on episode 14. I’ve had two miscarriages, an ectopic pregnancy where I lost my fallopian tube, and a failed round of IVF where I didn’t make to transfer day. Know you aren’t alone if you’ve gone through loss.
For this show we have a transcript.
Victoria: and we have teamed together so that we can have this really important discussion of loss. And we’ve both been through our fair share.
Jamie: And I am fresh out of it. I just had a miscarriage a week ago yesterday, so it’s really fresh on my mind.
Victoria: Yeah. And I’m so sorry that that happened.
Jamie: And I’ve been mourning it for almost two weeks -because I knew it was going to happen. and they had said that it had stopped growing and I just wanted to let nature take its course. And even though it just happened over a week ago,, I’ve been mourning it for a while.
Victoria: Yeah, I identify with that because my most recent miscarriage was in December, two days before Christmas. and, you know, when it’s always that moment when the radiology technician comes in. In my case it was, I don’t, sometimes your actual OB will do it for you. But in this one it was a technician who came in and just her whole vibe just told me ahead of the time, and I think what was rough was that I invited my husband and my, my daughter to ultrasound. And we didn’t tell her, I, I specifically did not mention what was happening, just the doctor’s appointment, but to be there and hear no heartbeat.
And she was so vague and I just wanted a clear cut answer, like, just give it to me. Right.
Jamie: don’t sugarcoat it.
Tell me.
Victoria: At this point, just rip the bandaid. And I understand that that’s a delicate subject, you know, and may, maybe not everyone’s comfortable doing that, but I feel like if your patient is asking at least, like, run and get the doctor and do it together, you know what I mean?
If you don’t wanna do it by yourself,
Jamie: yeah.
Victoria: but, um, yeah, I hear you on that. I’m still grieving, I grieving in a sense. I think for me as a, as someone who is a mom, and I don’t take that. Lightly. Like I understand the blessing that that is. So, if anyone’s listening, and is kinda triggered who are not yet moms and have had miscarriages it’s not lost on me that I’m already a mom, however,
Jamie: yeah. But I, I don’t think you should belittle your experience in your grief. any, just because you already have a
Victoria: Yeah, no, no, I don’t believe it either. I’m just, you know what, what I was about to say was just the fact that I think what made it harder, cuz I’ve had the miscarriages prior to my daughter. I’ve had one and I’ve had all the other ones. I’ve had four now after her. And I think this one was even more difficult in the sense that she was old enough to kind of notice the change in me.
And, you know, when I was coming back. and picking me up. And then, you know, ironically, maybe a few days after I found out that we were pregnant on her own, she started like walking around in a circle in the living room going, mommy, baby, mommy, baby, mommy, baby, mommy, baby.
And I didn’t tell her anything.
Jamie: huh?
Victoria: Isn’t that interesting? Like, I, I was like, she knows, she knows. So I, I just felt like the initial grief was I couldn’t do that for her. Maybe kind of like, I, you know, just I’m, and wondering whether I ever will be, and I know now and we’ll talk about our processes, you know, but now I’m like, she’s gonna be okay.
But I took that on a little bit in those few moments at right after. Yeah.
Jamie: Wow.
Victoria: When you and your husband got married and or wherever you, whenever you decided, okay, we’re gonna have a family, what did you think family planning was gonna look like for you guys?
Jamie: Well, you know, my mom, she had six miscarriages before me
Victoria: Oh my
gosh.
Jamie: and. She reminds me every time, and I wanna be called a miracle. She doesn’t call me a miracle. It’s really unfortunate.
Victoria: she doesn’t,
Jamie: No, I’m like, mom, please, please call me what I’m supposed to be called And,, so I kind of knew, I was like, I kind of expected it to not be easy.
Victoria: yeah.
Jamie: And so when we started, my husband wanted to wait to start until we got married. And I was like, no. Yeah, he’s very traditional. And I was like, no, we, we need to get a headstart on this. You don’t know how long it’s gonna take us. So I kind of had that in the back of my mind that it, it, it could probably take longer than I wanted it to.
Now, two over two years in, I didn’t expect two years, but. Yeah. What about you?
Victoria: I had an idea that it may not be simple only because I was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome,
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: 2010. So I was still in my thirties, and early thirties. While that was alarming, I was just happy to know because I was having all these different symptoms and it fell under all, you know, this umbrella.
So when I heard about the possibility of infertility, I took it as a possibility, not necessarily going to be my story, but I knew that I had also wanted to start earlier than later in trying, just in case I did. And just that relationship, um, was never in a healthy place to even start trying.
And even when I did bring it up, it never, it’s not something that brought us closer. If anything, it was what ended it he didn’t really want a responsibility of really having a family, so I went on my own and he went on his own, but I was 36 or 37 when we broke up.
And I ran to a fertility clinic, get this, I ran to the fertility clinic going my eggs, my eggs. I gave him all my best eggs, like and I, and then I ran to this fertility clinic and I just wanted to know what’s my egg reserve looking like. You know, I had heard of this through other friends, but not in extreme detail.
But I knew that this was a good step. So I went in, they did the test. She’s like, okay, obviously it’s diminishing because of your age. And she went through all of, you know, how we are born with all we’re ever gonna have, which I did not know at 36, 37 public announcement here, and then. , I heard that and I said, okay, good.
I took this deep breath. Then she told me how much, and I was like, I’m sorry, what? And like, I was in so much debt out, out of that relationship. I couldn’t even see straight when she told me the number. And so I left with this false confidence in the number of my, like, of my eggs.
Jamie: mm-hmm.
Victoria: And I walked out. I didn’t know I’d find love like this kind of love five, six years later
to even really try now.
Jamie: Yeah. We got married when I was 40, and so it’s like, let’s go.
Let’s go.
Victoria: Yeah. And for me, like my husband has two older kids, so we’re done. Right? . And then he’s like, don’t you wanna be a mom, but do you wanna be a mom? said, well yeah, I thought about it, but you know, at this point, do, you wanna start over?
And he’s like, oh, that’s a shame cuz you’d be a really great mom. I’d, I’d try with you. And that’s how we ended up trying.
Jamie: How sweet.
Victoria: but we, we do take for granted, you know, that it’s just gonna be quote unquote simple and there’s really not much simple about fertility.
Jamie: Yeah. It’s not. You know, when I was younger I actually wanted a family. Like I didn’t want just kids and I wanted a husband and I wanted all of it. And I told myself that I was never gonna find him cuz I dated, you
know, so many guys and none of them were right. And, you know, I even went on a date with my husband, like it’s probably been almost 15 years
ago. And, and so we didn’t get married until like two over two years ago. So I just really thought, I’m like, well, I’m not gonna be a mom because I haven’t been able to find my husband yet. And that, you know, I was ready to give up also
Victoria: Yeah.
Jamie: in a different way.
Victoria: Yeah. Cuz my parents met in their twenties. They had me at 24 and 27. I remember hitting 24 and . Thinking this is the age that my mom had me. But I was still in college and or coming out of college and I, I remember going, that’s not happening this year or maybe next year.
I remember being not feeling like a failure, but just thinking. How, how did that happen for them? And they’re still together. Like, I don’t see that [00:10:00] in sight for me.
So when is this gonna happen?
Jamie: Yeah. I know, I know the feeling.
Victoria: The moment that you and your husband discovered that it was gonna be difficult, what was that like?
Jamie: I had an ectopic pregnancy and I had internal bleeding and you know, once we figured out that I had internal bleeding and she’s like, my doctor is pointing at the screen because, you know, the doctor usually never comes in the sonogram.
Victoria: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: and sh she went in there cuz we knew it was an ectopic. And so she came in the room and she’s like, look at all this stuff.
Glowing on the screen. She’s like, this is, this is internal bleeding. You are gonna go right across the street and have surgery.
So now I’m in my forties, early forties, and I don’t have a fallopian tube on the left side and I’ve already had a miscarriage. And so that was probably the moment that, you know, I thought it was gonna be tough.
Victoria: Notice anything in him? Like, because I feel like we talk a lot about us as the moms to be, you know, the ones you’re trying. But I often think like, are there signs that we’re missing of our husband’s expressing what that moment is like for them too.
You know what I mean?
Jamie: My husband is pretty quiet about his feelings,
so I sometimes I have a hard time like recognizing what’s going on and plus I have so many emotions going on. Sometimes I have a hard time almost considering his, because I am just
Victoria: Yeah.
Jamie: in my own. But I, I know he carries a lot of my own feelings is cuz I express them externally. So I know he carries that a. and I, it, it has been hard for him. I know.
Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. For, for me, for my husband, he seems really concerned about my health. He’s just really hesitant to even try again.
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: um, and I’m sure it, you know, what plays into his decision too, is he’s got three healthy kids.
You know what I mean? And it’s, I’m the one who’s saying, but I, you know, I want another one. But the, I know that the risk is higher every time, you know, as we age too, you know, I really just the miracle of, a pregnancy anyway is just astounding, right? I guess that brings me to something that you had mentioned about just like how we honor our b our bodies in this process and that the more that we talk about it, it is a really, it hap it’s a natural thing that a lot of us go through, right?
Wouldn’t you say?
Jamie: it’s process for our body. And I, the first thing I wanted to do was blame my body and I was really angry.
Victoria: Yeah.
Jamie: And so it’s funny because I, you know, I’m grieving and it’s almost like my body held on almost like, Hey, listen. Almost like, I mean, I know it sounds silly, but it’s almost like it was hanging on to this pregnancy too, like my brain was,
Victoria: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: I, I, um, I really did not want to acknowledge this last pregnancy, and I, I don’t, I hate how that sounds, but it’s the truth. When the pregnancy test came back, I remember thinking, uh, you know, um, pregnant and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. This is great. I woke my husband up and I was like, look, look, look.
But then saying it out loud, cuz I did, you know, I was looking at the test silently, you know, and I my God, my, and I ran to him and I told him, once I said it out loud, there was this wave of fear that like, hit me afterwards. It’s kind of. PTS D maybe a little of, I’ve announced it, I’ve, it’s real now.
What if I lose it? And I was talking to a friend of mine and she said, but what if you don’t, what you know, you don’t know, like you don’t know, so I really encourage you. Are you journaling? I’m like, yes. And she’s like, I think you should write a letter to it. And that was really hard because I had, I had done that before, you know what I mean?
I had done that to the, the set of twins that I lost separately. And
Jamie: Mm.
Victoria: I, I didn’t even wanna revisit that letter since that their, you know, since that miscarriage. So, to write another one was just like, again, is like, is this journal becoming a collection of losses at this point? Like, I don’t, I don’t really know if I wanna do that, and I dug deep and I wrote the letter and it was a process like you can see it in my writing of I don’t really wanna do this.
I’m afraid to, but you know what, it’s a ti whatever time I have with you. And you’re, you know, and by the end of the letter I was bawling, bawling and all this got released and I thought, okay, I can’t be all scientific about this in my brain. Like I tried, I tried to protect myself here, but I think I’m just gonna honor that I’m the vessel right now and I’m going to enjoy this time.
And it was an unfortunate short four days of doing that because that’s what literally from that moment of writing that letter and saying, I’m okay with this was the appointment where there was no heartbeat, like four days. But I still in, I, you know, for me, I don’t think. I don’t think, um, I don’t think I would tell someone that they have to do that.
But if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, I’d rather do that than, than walking around here with just all this fear, and maybe that will be something that will be beneficial to me and for just for me. Maybe I will journal, but it’s been hard for me. I haven’t even read that letter yet. I, I still can’t really bring myself to read them.
Jamie: Yeah. I don’t blame you. I saw you posted that on, um, as an audiogram. I thought it wa it was really inspiring to me.
Victoria: Oh, thank you. That was so hard. That was so
Jamie: Yeah,
Victoria: hard. It makes it so real. I, and I’ve talked to a lot of people, a lot of women who have gone through this, and I think that’s the, that’s the toughest part is not stealing your joy, you know, not letting your joy be stolen in the process of finding out that you’re pregnant.
But then also that that protection of just, just in case this doesn’t work out, again, I just need to protect myself from that pain. But I find either way, you really don’t still, you know, you still really can’t protect yourself. It still hurts.
Jamie: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Victoria: So is it better to just
Jamie: Yeah. I kind of thought the
Victoria: or, you know, did you.
Jamie: Yeah, I, cuz I kind of went into it going, I want to celebrate this no matter how far along I get. Because whether I try and protect myself or, celebrate it, I’m gonna be upset at the end. So I might as well celebrate it now
Victoria: How was that then and with that point of view, which I, I really like, am impressed because I think that’s really hard, uh, for me. It sounds hard, but for you, like did, how did that play into your grief going in with that type of positivity? Did that sustain you in a way at all?
Jamie: Um, a little bit, you know, I kind of compare it to my first miscarriage, so I kind of look like, look at it that I have, I’ve had four losses. I’ve had a miscarriage and then the atopic and then a failed ivf. And then this last one and my first miscarriage, I indulged in all the grieving, all the sadness.
Like I was having a gigantic bowl, not ice cream, but sadness. And I just sat on the sofa for an entire week and just was sad. And I also was a little, um, ignorance was bliss kind of a situation cuz I didn’t really understand what was going on. And I had even called the doctor like, I’m miscarrying. Like I expected them to do something to stop it.
And I wish the, I wish the doctor actually explained to me, look, there’s nothing we can do. And they, I wanted to hear those words. And I, I, you know, you’re, the first time you’re going through it, you don’t understand.
Victoria: No.
Jamie: this second time, I mean, it’s, I guess it’s not a second time, but kind of is a second time in a way that I wanted to be emotionally in a totally different place than I was at that point.
And I knew what was going to happen and, you know, mentally, I, I wanted to be in a better place and to be more positive and to have better thoughts going in. Like, this is all happening it’s happening just as it’s supposed to be.
Victoria: Yeah, it’s, I, that’s the part that I always had problems with for myself is like everything in my life for many years was, everything is happening the way it’s supposed to be.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: But then I got so angry between these last two. Cuz then on top of the miscarriages, they’re two, I failed IVF rounds. So you four miscarriages, two IVF rounds that didn’t go through.
And I was just thinking no one else has this issue in my family. See cuz with you, with what you were expressing about your mom, it didn’t have to be your reality, but you had a feeling, you know, there was a possibility because of what she went through. My mom had four kids. My sister has three kids. Like no one has these issues.
No one else has P C O S, no one has fibroids. I was just like, , what is going on? So, you know, I’m looking, is it an environment? Is it stress? Like I’m the one that usually can, you know, runs and does what needs to be done. Is it because I’m putting too much on myself?
And I started really kind of looking inward until like truly just really con like having these conversations through this podcast. And I’m sure we both, you know, can share what having this community, our communities mean to us in our, along our process. But in speaking to more people, I’m finding, oh, okay, this is happening to many of us, to many people.
And it’s, there’s so many factors here that it has, it may not have anything to do with the things I’m trying to place blame on. You know what I mean? On myself of the, I’m not, I’m definitely, I’m, I will, I will. Swear that I don’t think stress is good to, for anything. Stress is not good for you in, in many facets of your, you know, aspects of your health. But, I, I got so angry that I just, I didn’t want to hear this is how it was supposed to be cuz it didn’t feel like it was supposed to be that for me. I felt like looking around, like everyone has all of these kids, but then I’m also the only one that started this late.
So it’s kind of like if you’re doing like a test study that’s a very big, like a big por portion to consider that you’re like, I’m leaving out in my narrative of like, why me? It, it also can be that, you know, my mom started when she was 24. . My sister started when she was in her early thirties at maybe even like the last few years of her twenties.
Jamie: For me, I, I tried to be careful what questions I ask myself, because when I started to ask myself, why, why is this happening? My brain came up with terrible answers. My brain said, you don’t deserve to be pregnant, otherwise you would be pregnant.
Victoria: It’s hard to hear because it’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s hard to hear cuz it feels so painful,
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. And so my brain said, I don’t deserve to be a mom because I would be pregnant other otherwise. And so, knowing that I’ve had that thought for a long time. So kind of knowing that and understanding my thoughts and mean, why did I ask myself that? I, you know, it’s a circumstance that I’m in and I’m just there.
I don’t, I don’t wanna ask myself why I am. I usually try and look forward into the future. And so I’ve really kind of focused on that because otherwise my brain has some really terrible answers.
Victoria: Yeah. You know, it’s funny cuz I was just thinking while you were speaking and I was like, that sounds familiar cuz I feel like I had a little bit of that too. But I think that’s why with the IVF rounds, I was able to like really escape from asking my myself questions because it was out of, you know what I mean?
It was out of my control. Like, or I you know what I mean? It’s never really in your control, right? You could, all you’re controlling is, Hey babe, it’s ovulation time, let’s go. That’s a, after that, like it’s totally out of your hands. But for something, for, for some reason with I V F, I was able to really separate it like it felt so, it’s so scientific , you know, like, you’ve got the egg, you’ve got the sperm.
Let me know how it goes. And so, Right.
Jamie: Yeah. And the drugs, and it’s so
Victoria: and the drugs. Five days, call me in five days, let me know. So when, and it’s not that simplified, but you know what I mean, like
Jamie: right, right.
Victoria: of me, like there’s nothing I’ve done everything I can do now. It’s just, so when I got the results, we were both very disappointed, but it was so much easier to deal with than the miscarriages.
I acknowledge that they’re very, you know, it’s very different, you know, it’s very different because, especially Hope cuz [00:26:00] after to go after two failed i v f rounds and then get pregnant.
Naturally. I remember going, I don’t have to call the fertility clinic. We were gonna do another round. I, we did it on our own and then, To have to call and go, well, you haven’t heard from me in four months because I got pregnant, but I’m not, okay, so let’s get back on this horse, you know,
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: uh, was rough.
Jamie: For me it’s also financially that was almost a balance for me because it’s such a financial investment that, you know, I’m not grieving as much because I am so separated, but damn, we lost a lot of money. That, that really that really hit me also.
Victoria: Yeah. And I feel that is where, you know, going back to husbands, that is the part where I know he wouldn’t say that, but it’s like, there was a lot that went into supporting you emotionally. You know, me emotionally, and then I’m a stay-at-home, so I’m working, but it’s a different type of work. I’m not getting paid in that sense.
And so my husband is the breadwinner. So when it’s, when you’re talking about the, the money aspect too, it’s just like, oh man, like there’s really no return from what was invested, you know, besides more pain and
Jamie: Right?
Victoria: you know, and they, if we feel powerless and like, just call me in five days, let me know if I have a blastocyst or not.
Imagine they’re not even the ones going through the shots and the, and the treatment. They’re really, it’s like everything is happening totally outside of them. Like they just show
up, give what they need to in a cup and then they’re done.
And it’s just, it’s must be really bizarre. I would love to get a man’s perspective on what that’s like to support their partner through an IVF or I, you know, through assisted reproductive technology because it’s weird , it’s, it’s weird.
Jamie: The focus is on
Victoria: it’s all on us and it’s on us. Again, if it doesn’t go through, you know, it’s just like, how’s the best support? And I, I wanted to ask like, what was your support system like? Do you have a sup support system in place when after these things have happened outside of your husband as well?
Jamie: Yeah. My mom and sisters have really been there for me and, and helping me through a, a lot and just these women, every time I do an interview, it’s like, I’m like, you don’t know how much this means to me also, and how connected I am to their stories.
Victoria: And that’s what I love about your podcast what’s great about your podcast is its focus on the stories of people who’ve actually gotten pregnant after 40. It’s so inspiring, you know, so that if you are in a space and you don’t require anyone to have to talk about the, you know, just the failures, they’re talking about the successes.
So when people are tuning in who are probably in the process or just lost, it’s like, okay, there’s hope. Look, she can do it. She did it, she did it. Maybe there’s hope for, for me. So it’s really awesome that in spite of what you’re going through and what you’ve gone through, that you’re providing space for people to tell these stories.
But does that, is there ever a time when you’re like, I can’t do this interview right now, like, because I like, you know, like, I know. It’s, it’s, no, no. Like, it’s never like, do did you go ahead and interview even still after, right after the miscarriage?
This one?
Jamie: Yeah. I think, I don’t remember. I wanna say I was like bleeding during a few of them, and I’m just like, yeah, I’m not, not pregnant anymore. And that goes back to my thoughts about, about it, that, because my, my mind says, I don’t deserve to be a mom because otherwise you’d be pregnant. I, I find it a lot easier to celebrate other women.
I, you know, in a way I almost feel a little bit like a fraud. Right. You’re mom. But I have a podcast called Over 40, fabulous. And pregnant, and I’m not even a mom. So there’s a little bit like I am an outsider also, and I do not find it hard at all to just keep celebrating women at all.
Victoria: but I wanna correct something
Jamie: I don’t.
Victoria: Wait, hold on one second. Sister. Wait, I, I don’t want you to think that, I mean, you do know that you deserve to be a mom, right?
Jamie: I, I do. I know It’s an absolute ridiculous thought. Every woman decide is deserves to be a mom if they want to. I, yes. I also believe that.
Victoria: Okay, good. Because I think that’s why people also feel comfortable. They may not know right offhand that you’re not a mom, but when you do share, cuz I have no, I know that you probably say, well no, I’m not a mom yet. . I don’t think they feel like there’s some imposter that’s doing it. It’s just you are looking for hope.
You are the woman that, that you are appealing to in your community. You know what I’m saying? To, to be inspired by someone’s story. And we’re all rooting for you, . We’re all rooting for you. And that it happens one day. Cuz the day that Jamie announces, okay guys, it’s happened, it’s like, yay. Because you’ve provided a space for people to talk about their stories for me, like on, on my podcast.
The reason why I talk about, you know, not just the successes, cuz the first season was pretty much just kind of the, you know, similar in just telling us about, you know, you, your pregnancy and how you got there. But, after doing it for a little bit, it was interesting, some of the dms that I was getting or the followers that I was getting, That, you know, the followers that I started to attract were experiencing so many infertility issues that it kind of flipped my, not really my goal, but just incorporated because people were going through IVFs or had gone through so many, just like you, you know, the women. You’ve interviewed so many, had a bumpy road to motherhood, and then some didn’t have an issue at all.
And so it just came, it just seemed like, oh, we’re evolving here, but I don’t think, you should have any imposter syndrome. If anything, maybe you start by, by telling people your story and them hearing your story, they’ll even appreciate the space that much more that you’re creating because you just wanna celebrate.
And it’s beautiful.
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: Um, I have a sister too. I just have to give a shout out to my sister who’s been an amazing, amazing support system. Cuz when you said that, I realized that I didn’t say mine and, you know, between my husband and some girlfriends that I have. And, but my sister really has just been, um, pretty amazing.
So shout out to you, Lynn
Jamie: Yeah. I did wanna say, speaking of support, uh, I have a girlfriend in New York and when, when my dad passed, and just on the, on the note of grieving, she called me and you know, me and my dad were very close and she called and she said, what kind of support do you need? And she said, do you want me to cry with you? Do you want to be inspired? You know, what do you need? And I was like, that is so perfect.
Victoria: Mm-hmm.
Jamie: I just thrive and feel so inspired, just being surrounded by strong women in stories. And it’s really been uplifting for me.
Victoria: That’s a beautiful friend. What a beautiful thing to say.
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: Wow.
Jamie: I know. I was like, I told her later, I was like, it was perfect.
Victoria: Has anyone ever said anything to you after knowing about the miscarriages that was just really just unnecessary and not wanted?
Jamie: Well, I’ve, I’ve had two things. Like one people just get really awkward and just like freeze. And I’m like, it’s okay. It’s okay. We can talk about it. And I had another friend, she, once she knew, she sent me flowers and journals and. Books and angels, and I was like, I don’t want any of this. you know, I, it’s a loss of my future and my future children, but I also don’t want anything to remind me of this time.
Like, if I forgot it, it would kind of be okay. I think.
Victoria: Yeah. And that it’s because the question wasn’t asked. Right. And actually even one of those things might be okay . But all of that was just like
Jamie: Whoa.
Victoria: It’s just too much. It’s just too
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: She went a little, you know, she went a little overboard. But yeah.
Jamie: yeah, What about you?
Victoria: um, well what’s, what funny question is, or a funny thing is what actually launched this podcast was, um, after the, the miscarriage of the twins.
My mom passed away 15 days later and Yeah. And I was at the funeral and then the woman, uh, a, a friend of hers said something about, well, at least your mom got to meet this one before she passed away. Cuz for years we wondered what was wrong with you. And I was just like, that went left . That, is that really what you wanted to say?
Jamie: Surely there was good intentions somewhere in there.
Victoria: Is that what you meant to say? Um, and that’s when I, I thought maybe there would be a, it would be great to have a space where we can talk about these awkward moments and things that people just assume about people who start, you know, their parenting, journey later on in life. But I think the worst one recently was just focus on the one that you have and be happy with that.
Like I went on a, on a support group, I think it was an older mom’s group or something, I was expressing, you know, the feeling of possibly being one and done. Because recently we had a kind of like a change of heart as a couple of whether to continue and mostly my, my husband is really not. On board with that.
So I kind of was looking for support. And this woman in this group of all Pete, she’s like, you just focus on the one you have. And I was like, why are you in this group? Like, what, you’re here, obviously, cuz you need community too. Like, I’m good for you that you’ve gotten to a, you’ve gotten to a place where you’re okay with it.
But I just got here like, give me a break. I, I said hi, I’d like to introduce myself, you know what I mean? Like, , this is clearly I’m new here. So yeah, that wasn’t, that didn’t feel really good. Um, but I get, you know, because maybe because of I’m, I’ve been doing this podcast and have this, this community, now I can hear what she’s saying without the punchiness of it. And it’s really
Jamie: Uhhuh.
Victoria: enjoy the moments that you, you have right now, which I think. is definitely positive, and I agree with that. You just don’t know, like, it’s just a hard thing to tell someone who’s grieving. It’s like literally, if you flipped it, and I don’t know why people don’t do the same thing, like don’t compare the two, you wouldn’t say that if someone’s parent died, like if my mom passed away, you wouldn’t go, well, at least you had a mom like, well, you, at least you have your dad, so get over it.
You wouldn’t say, you wouldn’t say that. You’d have more compassion. So I, I think it might be, it might stem from this, discomfort, from, you know, how to deal with that in talking to someone about it and that that’s what I hope people get from this episode as to what, at least if you don’t know what to say, maybe not , not what to say.
Jamie: Yeah. And I just have people treating me so different or being really, giving me too much space, and I just find that almost worse. It’s like, don’t treat me any different, but you can still ask about what’s going on or it’s not like I’m gonna cry on your shoulder, like,
Victoria: And if I did
Jamie: treat me. Yeah.
Victoria: what if I did, like, you
Jamie: That’s true.
Victoria: what’s, the problem in doing that? Like, but to be ostracized, that’s, that’s rough.
Did you, did you address that with
Jamie: no, no. no. I mean a lot of this is like coworkers and stuff because you know, we have some people who were just really interested cuz I left work in the middle of the day and I didn’t come to work, you know, one morning. And so people are like, what’s going on? Where’s Jamie? And so I had a coworker ask me, you know, more, it was kind of more gossipy, like, what’s going on, blah, blah, blah.
And I said, oh, I had a miscarriage. he, he was, he was just beside himself. He was like, stepping away slowly, and I’m like, it’s okay.
Victoria: But I wish that was more, I mean, there’s , there’s a lot of power in that cuz you told your truth, right?
Jamie: Yeah, he totally was. Yeah.
Victoria: and why should it be on you? And that’s the thing about having a miscarriage in, in loss. It’s like, it feels like it’s always on the person, the woman going through the loss to take care still of the people around her for the, to not offend them or to put the responsibility of them to be emotionally connected or tied to the situation.
Like why can’t I just tell you that this is what it was? And, and then just support, support. Ask me how to , support me through it. That’s all it should be. But even the workplace, when they talking about the workplace and miscarriages, they don’t even treat it. You can’t even get the days off properly.
Right? That’s like pto, like they don’t see it as an actual, um, grievance. Right. Or a bereavement.
Jamie: Mm-hmm. ..Yeah.
Victoria: So you can’t get bereavement period for. You’re, if you’ve had a loss, if you’ve had a miscarriage or any other loss.
Jamie: but the good thing about that is the owners of my company have also been through fertility treatment, and so they have really been supporting me really well, and yes, it, it feels really good. He’s messaged me, he said, if you need any time off, you just go. You don’t even have to really tell me. And that’s been really nice.
But another thing that I kind of found between my first miscarriage and this one is that, I, it felt really good just to work and work and not, I was avoiding my feelings, but at the same time, it also felt good to not be on the sofa. Indulging in all of those, all of the sadness.
Victoria: Yeah, I didn’t even, I couldn’t even wrap my head around the, the miscarriage around the time my mom passed away. It almost felt like I was trying to figure out like, what do I tackle first? You know what I mean? What deserves the, the, the grieving the most because,
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: and I think I made the decision at that time to just focus on my mom because my father was relying on me to get him through that. Um, she was literally just disappearing before our eyes. She was diagnosed in January, she told us in February, and she was gone in May. It was literally that fast of lung cancer, stage four lung cancer, so I didn’t have time. I know that sounds crazy. I just did not have the time. To really wrap my head around what had just happened to me and for me, you know, there was a, about a week and a half between each loss, so Baby A passed first, and that when I had an idea, um, that it could happen because it was not developing as, uh, on schedule as Baby B.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: Months later. it would hit me in intervals,
Jamie: yeah.
Victoria: God forbid both my mom and them like happened around the same time.
It was, I literally felt like, um, kind of like an earthquake, like it, the tears would start and it would feel like it was coming from a place I didn’t even recognize that tears existed and I was literally going to lose my, my control of my body. Like, I, like it wasn’t me anymore. It just, it felt so, uh, buried in a really, really deep place.
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: It was
hard,
Jamie: It like you were in survival mode.
Victoria: completely.
Jamie: didn’t have time to process it.
Victoria: No. No, and I think it influenced my ivf.
I was just like, I’ve gotta, like, I was going to re, like for some reason I thought those babies would, that baby bee will come back. Like I just gotta get that healthy baby.
Jamie: yeah.
Victoria: it, you know, I don’t know if that makes any sense, but I just felt like I could have had this baby.
Jamie: Mm.
Victoria: That still hits me a little bit right now, I have to
Jamie: Yeah.
Victoria: When my mom passed, someone gave me this really great poem, but in short it’s basically like grief changes weight and shape, but you always carry it with you.
Jamie: oh, interesting. I like that.
Victoria: Yeah. What’s next for you?
Jamie: Was gonna say earlier how you said that, um, you called off your ivf, we called off our donor eggs
Victoria: You did?
Jamie: and I was like, yeah. And I said, this is a miracle, y’all. This is gonna be an amazing story. We were days away from paying for our donor, and I was so happy. I’m like, cancelling, no need. We’re pregnant. It was an amazing email.
And so I just thought, you know, it’s different. It’s totally different. So that’s kind of one thing that does give me hope and a lot of positivity is, okay, I’m, I’m back, please, we’re gonna, is the donor available anymore? And she wasn’t. And it was totally meant to, you know, not be with that donor. I wasn’t really super excited about her, but I was like, I, yeah, I really wasn’t.
And she was fine, but then I was like, we need more donor options, please. We don’t like these, you know, we’re on Tinder scrolling away
Victoria: Yeah, you don’t wanna end up with a, eh, it’s okay. Egg donor. Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria: you wanna, you wanna be excited about, you know, the, like feel really good about having an egg, you know, the egg donor that you choose, so
Jamie: and I feel so excited. I’m so excited about this one. We have her reserved, so she has her egg retrieval at the end of April and
Victoria: gosh.
Jamie: yeah, her retrievals at the end of April and then it’ll take a few weeks to get her eggs. They’ll have to be frozen and then delivered and um, then she’s like, it’s a possibility of like a may transfer.
Victoria: Jamie, this is amazing.
Jamie: It is. I’m just so, so excited about it. I’m like, let’s go. And, you know, something you mentioned earlier, it’s like giving up and we kind of decided it’s like, you know, financially it seems like a waste. And that’s kind of hard to say, but for us, I, I can’t see spending a lot more money than we already have and will already plan to.
And so we kind of decided these are the eggs we’re going to get. And this is, this is the end with, you know, ivf.
I know. I am so excited. And that kind of brings me to, you know, when my doctor, I was put on the highest dose for ivf, and you know, when we did the egg retrieval, I got one mature.
And I’m like, I’m not, I’m not doing this again for one egg on the highest dosage. You know, I’m sure I could do a little better, but okay, say we got three or four eggs.
I, I don’t wanna do all that again for that little amount. And so when she told me, she goes, I recommend doing donor eggs. I cried. And that’s simply because I had to mourn the loss of children with my own genetics. But then I also wanna adopt. So I’m like, Jamie, what’s wrong with you? You also wanna adopt, this should be kind of perfect.
So I’m like, wait a second. It is perfect.
Victoria: Yeah.
Jamie: So I’m stoked.
Victoria: I I’m glad that you bring that up because that’s what I was thinking of when, um, you said it, and when my friend Camille said it, I was like, well, you could adopt for those who consider adoption and you have this option of, you know, having one, you’re on your own and that is something that you really want to do.
And it was just because of infertility or an issue that made you unable to carry your own. Like, this might be actually the, the best way, you know, the best of both worlds of actually being able to carry. Um, but I, I would love to consider adoption in the future. I definitely think that there’s so many amazing children in need of a home that I would love to give that love to.
Um, and I think that’s something that we might be open to little later down the line to let, um, our little one grow up a little bit more and just kind of selfishly, if you can, right. Just take all the time that you can and smother her and.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: And until we’re like, okay, we need another run. So maybe, maybe, uh, then, but, um, I think, I think, you know, what I would love to capture is that grief doesn’t come in one size fits all.
Jamie: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: Right? When you say,
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I think we all do it. We all do it differently, and there’s nothing wrong with that. And no one is here to judge someone for grieving, unlike me or unlike you.
Victoria: yeah. And if you are at a place where you’re like, okay, it’s this, can, this happens. It’s, it’s natural. It didn’t happen because these, you know, it wouldn’t have been a viable pregnancy anyway. At least I know and I’m fine about it. Fantastic. If the, if you f that’s how you feel and. We don’t want, you know, anyone to be pressured by society, that they have to feel a certain way.
Like they have to be grieving it. You, you may have been quickly in, in acceptance of it, which is fantastic. And then if not, just know, take your time. I mean, what were, are any self-care things that you can share that really helped for you to just take care of yourself afterwards? Cuz even physically that, that there, there is something there to, you know, kind of heal from.
Did you do anything in terms of, you know, self-care to take care of yourself?
Jamie: I, I wish I did. I need to do more because I have thrown myself into this podcast and I don’t do enough self-care. You know, I do. I have animals and so I have too many chickens and dogs and rabbits, and I find so much peace in taking care of. and a garden is really peaceful for me. So those little moments for me, I do a lot of walking with my dogs on the weekend.
That’s the little bit of self care that I probably do. I love taking baths. Um, yes, I’m like Sunday evenings. Those are like my, my Sunday evening routine is to relax and just enjoy it. Yeah.
Victoria: As soon as I cleared the doctor’s orders of baths and soaking and all that stuff, after the miscarriage, I took a bath. Like I remember looking at the calendar, I’m like, oh, it’s been two weeks. It should be safe. And I poured myself. , you know, a nice bath with lavender and rosemary and just sat there. I closed the door and it felt good.
I need to do it more often, but, you know, I think just anyone listening to this, we just really suggest that you take, see if you can establish a routine for yourself or something for yourself afterwards when you’s safe to, to do it.
Just so, just to take a moment to just check in with, with yourself. Is there anything else that you are, you’re wanting to share in terms of your journey to, to motherhood?
Jamie: I, what’s helped me the most is understanding my thoughts and I really urge women to find their thoughts that serve them and take back the. and that, that’s really what has helped me through it is I don’t wanna be a victim in this. I want to be stronger coming out of it. And that’s what I think my message is.
Really.
Victoria: I think that’s perfect.
Where can, where can anyone find you?
Jamie: You can find me on over40Fabulousandpregnant.com. And that is the same as my Instagram handle. This is gonna be an interruption to all of our stories, but hopefully it will be a much needed one.
Victoria: And you can find me at, new mommy@forty.com and new mommy at 40 on Instagram and Facebook. Thank you.
Jamie: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.
Resources:
Over 40 Fabulous and Pregnant on Instagram
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