114. When artist Ruth Whiting faced a second heartbreaking miscarriage in her 40s, she chose to reject the clinical anxiety of “advanced maternal age” and instead trust her body’s innate wisdom. In this deeply empowering episode, she shares how prioritizing a radical rest practice and rolling the dice on a natural home birth led to an incredible, 8-minute standing delivery at age 43.
On episode 114, Ruth, an oil painter and children’s book author, shares her journey to welcoming her daughter at 43. Ruth opens up about the reality of facing back-to-back miscarriages in her 40s, how receiving genetic testing results brought unexpected healing, and the radical mindset shift that allowed her to view her body not as failing, but as profoundly “badass.”
Moving past the fear and labels of a typical clinical setting, Ruth shares her experience working with a practice of supportive midwives to plan a natural home birth. From a sudden, explosive water-breaking moment on the toilet to an efficient, 8-minute standing labor, Ruth’s story is a beautiful, primal, and refreshingly positive look at later motherhood. Whether you are currently trying to conceive over 40, recovering from pregnancy loss, or exploring the care model of midwifery, this episode offers a powerful reminder to slow down, practice rest as resistance, and trust the pace of your own life.
About the Guest
Ruth Whiting is an accomplished oil painter, public installation artist, and the author and illustrator of the acclaimed children’s book series Lonely Bird, including Lonely Bird, Lonely Bird’s Dream, and her upcoming release, Lonely Bird’s Idea. Together with her husband, a kite designer, she has spent over two decades living a vibrant, creative lifestyle traveling the world and flying kites across multiple continents. After having her first child at age 31, Ruth navigated the challenges of secondary infertility and pregnancy loss in her 40s before naturally conceiving and delivering her daughter at age 43 via a natural home birth.
Connect with Ruth:
- Instagram: @ruth_whiting
- Wesite: Wind Fire Designs
Key Topics
- The Creative’s Path to Parenting: Navigating the unique financial and lifestyle realities of being full-time artists with no traditional safety net.
- Reframing Miscarriage & Loss: How Ruth found empowerment, rather than defeat, after experiencing two consecutive miscarriages at ages 41 and 42.
- The Healing Power of Clarity: How receiving genetic testing results after an 11-week loss shifted the narrative from “my body messed up” to “my body did the right thing.”
- Rest as Resistance: Embracing a structured rest and meditation practice (inspired by The Nap Bishop and yoga nidra) to actively support hormonal health and combat grind culture.
- The Midwifery Model of Care: Why Ruth opted for home births over standard clinical settings, highlighting the deep emotional and physical benefits of hour-long, evidence-based prenatal care.
- An 8-Minute standing Delivery: The wild geometry of giving birth standing up, the rare “true knot” in her daughter’s umbilical cord, and how vocalizing with low guttural noises prevented tearing.
Resources & Links
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Transcript
Jamie: Ruth, welcome to the show.
Ruth: Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Jamie: Today we are sharing Ruth’s story at 43. Ruth, will you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Ruth: So I’m an artist and I’ve lived the artist life for the last 20-odd years.
My husband and I met when we were very young. We’ve actually been together 25 years. He is a kite designer and I am an oil painter. And as soon as we met, we started making things together, and we realized that this was a really special connection.
We’ve traveled the world and flown kites on several different continents. We’ve made large scale public installation art. I’ve written and illustrated numerous children’s books.
Jamie: Wonderful. Will you start us, did you always want to have children?
Ruth: I didn’t start out saying my life is gonna be about children. I always rather liked children. I actually have a much younger sister. She’s 13 years younger than I am, so I had the experience of having a little person around. I think what really made me want children was my husband and seeing what a wonderful father he would be. He’s just a wonderful person and I knew that he would be an amazing dad and that he would make beautiful babies that was a big incentive for me.
Because we got together so young, there was a lot of fear around I didn’t wanna be a teenager who was pregnant. We wanted to live this artist life. So for many years it was like, oh, my God, getting pregnant was terrifying. However, once I was in my 30s and, we started thinking about having kids, it was a pretty natural evolution for us.
We knew that we wanted it, even though in our world of creative professionals, it’s quite rare to have children. So many of my friends who are artists do not have children.
Jamie: Really?
Ruth: Yeah. It’s it’s not unheard of obviously, but yeah, many of my core friends do not have children, and it’s really because they’ve taken this other path through life of being artists.
Jamie: Was it hard? Did you try for a while getting pregnant with your son?
Ruth: No. I was 31 at the time and we were like, “Oh, maybe we should be a bit less careful,” and I immediately got pregnant. So we were almost surprised we had not been pregnant before. So we immediately got pregnant, which was a bit of a surprise.
I had a, really very smooth pregnancy. I was low risk. I was able to do a home birth with my son which I highly recommend to anyone that’s considering it. I really had a pretty easy time with pregnancy and with breastfeeding, and yet I still was not interested in rushing into another pregnancy. Oh.
And we didn’t start thinking about having another kid seriously until I was in my 40s because, our lifestyle was really geared around, our creative careers. We also love to travel, and traveling with more children is more tickets. So it just didn’t seem terribly feasible. As artists, we pretty much have zero safety net. We also have no one that can fire us because we w-work for all different kind of people all the time.
I had no money to pay for childcare. It was always just like I would be working while he was napping. It was very much a lifestyle that, we made it work rather than something that could easily fit lots of kids in.
I didn’t really want to think about kids until I felt secure and that I– it wouldn’t impact my ability to create. I really do go crazy if I’m not regularly making art. When my son got old enough, maybe about eight or nine, I really was like, “Ooh,” “I could still do this,” we could have another kid. We’ve loved being parents, we’ve had such an amazing time.
We started to try when I was 41. It also coincided with I signed a big book deal that allowed me to really take my children’s book career seriously. So for the first time, I had multi-year money employment, which, to most people would be a laughably small amount of money. But to us, just to have any kind of regular income, made us think, “we could probably do this kid thing.”
And we again got pregnant very quickly. However, that pregnancy only lasted five weeks, so that was my first miscarriage. It was quite sad. It was physically very uncomfortable. But interestingly, it left me with the feeling like I could do this, that was a warmup round. I got this. My body wants to do it. I found it really interesting to experience being pregnant and then being not, and to experience the different hormonal shifts. I strangely came away from it empowered.
Jamie: I love that!
Ruth: I know. It’s not the narrative that I’ve heard around miscarriage. I can totally understand it not being everyone’s experience, but for me it really was like that.
And so I was like, “Okay, I got this,” that sucked, but let’s give it another shot. So we gave it another shot, and it took maybe as many as eight. I wasn’t really tracking at this point. We were just let’s see what’s happened,” which you can do if you’re going that route, and so we did that. And I got pregnant again.
This time I was pregnant for 11 weeks before I miscarried. That was an interesting experience because the whole time we were, like, really excited but also really anxious. And we both were, like, really concerned about genetic testing. We had genetic testing done, and as soon as that test was done, we got incredibly anxious that something was gonna be not right. What happens if something’s not right? We are in Florida, so if something’s not right, I’m gonna have to travel to another place and face not only having to terminate but also having to terminate under these really bizarre circumstances, and so it was incredibly stressful. And then we were waiting for the results. It had been about a week, and I started to bleed. And we’re like it could just be, just bleeding. It’s not necessarily a miscarriage.” And then two days later it was very clear it was a miscarriage. And I miscarried. And that was rough.
There had been so much build-up and it was 11 weeks it really is labor. Your body goes into labor. It’s lots of blood. It’s lots of pain. Luckily for me it was a very smooth miscarriage. I didn’t need any medical help, I could tell that I had passed everything. I recovered reasonably quickly, although I definitely had to really treat myself as someone who was postpartum.
I had all the wonkiness of being postpartum. And, I had thought when I was pregnant that time, I was like, “If I miscarry, I’m not doing this again.” But strangely, after that we’re like, one more time.”
Jamie: I have two questions from that.
Ruth: Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie: Did your doctor offer a D&C?
Ruth: I was not seeing a doctor at that time. Okay. I was seeing a midwife.
Jamie: Okay.
Ruth: And it was very much “Okay, I think I’m miscarrying. Oh, I’ve miscarried. There it is.”
Jamie: Okay.
Ruth: So there was no moment where it was like a D&C would be offered.
Jamie: Gotcha.
Ruth: That’s offered in this situation of we’re not sure things have come out, that kind of thing. Whereas this was like, within, I don’t know, eight hours maybe of starting to really bleed.
It was very clear.
Jamie: Gotcha.
Ruth: Everything was out. It was fine. Yeah. And they did offer an extra ultrasound. But I didn’t feel like it was necessary. And I was not super excited about a transvaginal ultrasound at that moment. I was like, “Oh, just stay away from me.”
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: And my midwives checked me out and said, “It’s fine.”
Jamie: Okay.
Ruth: I was definitely receiving care, but I did not go with a D&C. Okay. And it was not offered.
Jamie: And what about, did you ever receive the genetic testing back?
Ruth: We did, and it turned out that child did have a genetic fl- flaw.
Jamie: Okay.
Ruth: So that was actually incredibly healing. We did not receive that until after I had miscarried.
And it was incredibly healing for me to find that out because it changed it from this thing that, “Oh, no, my body messed up,” to- … “Oh, my body did the right thing,” and so again, I came out of that empowered because I was like, “My body is badass. It tried really hard, but it could tell,” and I think that detail allowed us to feel confident in trying again, and I think if, we had got genetic testing back said, “Oh, it was a perfectly healthy child,” we might feel felt differently.
I think the really a lot of the heaviness of miscarriage is feeling that your body did the wrong thing- or that your body can’t sustain life, or those kinds of thoughts. One, I had already had a healthy child with a very easy pregnancy, so I had that to go, “Oh, that I can do this.” And then I had this experience of oh, that is a child that, was not healthy, and that my body could tell.
So I came out rather empowered. And so after we, we didn’t do anything for two months. He was, like, just healing and taking care of me and all that, and then we were like, “Okay, let’s try one more time.”
I do a fair amount of meditation, and I actually did a meditation that was geared towards women who’ve miscarried, and it was interesting ’cause it was actually all about meeting a younger version of yourself. I regressed and did this whole younger version of myself, and I was asking her, “What should I do?” And she’s “Are you kidding me? You’re a risk-taker. Roll the dice,” and it’s true. I’ve always been a bit of a daredevil and a risk-taker. As soon as I realized that, I was like, “Yeah, come on. Yeah, we have something to lose, but we have something to gain.” So we tried again and immediately got pregnant. We actually were in Italy at a pipe festival when I was like, “I think I need to take a pregnancy test,” and that’s when this little one- was first noticed.
Jamie: Were you just late on your cycle? Why did you wanna take a test?
Ruth: I was late on my cycle.
Jamie: Okay
Ruth: … by a few days, and I did feel a little pregnant-ish. Yeah.
Jamie: And what sort of things were you doing to prepare for pregnancy?
Ruth: I’m someone who’s naturally very into food and nutrition. So in that regard, I just did all the things I normally do, which is, I pretty much eat totally farmer’s market fruits and veggies, and locally raised meats, and everything is homemade. That was not new, but it is something that I think is very important. I do lead a very healthy lifestyle.
I am very active. I love doing yoga and resistance training. Before I got pregnant with this one, I was doing aerial silks. All these things I think helped a lot with, making it so my body could be pregnant at this age. And they weren’t really geared towards pregnancy, but I think I would recommend them to anyone who is trying to get pregnant,
I think something that maybe helped me in particular was having a pretty robust rest practice. Our life is so about rush and doing everything that you can. And when I was working on my second children’s book, I had a really tight deadline, and my process is really intense. It doesn’t fit easily into the publishing schedule, so I was having to work really hard. And during that time, I started really regularly meditating every day. So I would take, 20 minutes out of my day and meditate. And I do really think that as we age, as women taking time for ourselves like that, creating a space where we are resting and- Getting enough sleep or, supplementing your sleep in some way is very helpful for hormonal health. And I would certainly recommend it to anyone trying to get pregnant, yeah.
I think it’s one of the pieces that’s often overlooked with pregnancy preparation is- … are you really resting and making sure that your life is the correct pace. And it’s probably one of the hardest things to control, honestly.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: I haven’t quite found it yet actually having a child.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: But I would say rest practice. There’s this wonderful woman I follow on Instagram. She calls herself The Nap Bishop. And she has an amazing take on particularly Black liberation, but it’s as rest as resistance, and resisting grind culture.
And I think that is one of the pieces that if you can change that in your life to really embrace how important it is to rest you can shift your hormones. At least that’s my thought.
Jamie: Yeah, I love that because you hear about stress and de-stressing, and practicing rest is a better focus, and it’s so simple.
Ruth: And choosing it for yourself. So for me, there’s an app that I like that I do yoga nidra meditations on. I found that incredibly helpful through pregnancy.
Jamie: Oh, yeah.
Ruth: I really struggled to sleep properly through this pregnancy. And I did a lot of meditations just to get some rest.
Jamie: Whenever you were in Italy and took a pregnancy test, what was it like seeing those two lines for, a fourth time- technically, but after two miscarriages- Yeah … what did that feel like?
Ruth: Interestingly, it was almost like we had used up all our anxiety on the previous pregnancy which is recommended, my husband and I were both like, “Okay, we’ll see,” and my son, who is an incredibly pragmatic 11-year-old now was like, for months, I was getting more, and more, and more pregnant, and he was still saying, “If it works,” and he was super excited to have a sibling, but he was not letting us forget that this could not work out, because he’d become excited, and then had his hopes dashed two times already.
So he helped keep us in line, but also we were so burnt out on anxiety by that point. We were just like, “Okay, whatever,” and maybe that helped. I don’t know. But yeah, strangely My husband says that he believed it was gonna be perfect from the word go I can’t say that I believe that, but I did have substantially less anxiety this time around.
Jamie: That’s great. I mean, that’s so surprising too.
Ruth: I know. I was very happy to get good genetic testing back. I was super happy to get a really solid 20-week scan, so I absolutely, had my points of anxiety, but it was still not this kind of overarching anxiety I had with the previous pregnancy.
Jamie: And did you stay active during that time?
Ruth: Yes. Okay. I, again, there are a few things that I need in life to not be a crazy person. Art is one of them. Sex is another. Exercise is a third, and good food. If I have those things, I’m pretty okay. I focused on those pillars of health and it got me through pretty well.
I have a recurring issue with one of my hips. So a lot of my activity during pregnancy was focused on managing that. I ended up going to a special physical therapist who helped me a lot. ‘Cause it really is exacerbated by pregnancy. So I stayed very active, but it was very boring physical therapy stuff for the most part.
Although I did a little bit of resistance training, and I had my little yoga things that I did. But yeah, I absolutely recommend staying active through pregnancy if you at all can. Oh my goodness I would be so miserable if I was not able to be somewhat active during pregnancy. Even as it was, I was, not as active as I usually am ’cause I was tired and pregnant. And that was challenging.
Jamie: Did you have any cravings? Did you still eat the same diet as you did before?
Ruth: You know, not really. I did not really have cravings, and this was true in my first pregnancy as well. And I think I c- I can explain that by saying that, I pretty much live inside my own catered world where I eat exactly what I want exactly when I want it, and it’s all pretty high-end stuff, we don’t make much money, but I spend a lot of money on food, that’s just a really important facet of life to me. And so my cravings it’s hard to distinguish them from my normal craziness about wanting to have a certain thing of food.
I did a few things shifted here and there. I ate more when I was more hungry. I was very particular about having my certain breakfast, but I’m kinda always like that, so I don’t know.
Jamie: How did you decide on a midwife this time?
Ruth: I was always into the idea of a home birth particularly after my experience last time having my son. I found it to be an excellent experience, and I would really recommend it to anyone that is low risk enough to do it. I think that at least in my experience, the level of care that I receive from a midwife far surpasses the level of care that you get in a classic doctor setting.
And by care, I don’t mean, tests. I mean care. So I would show up to my appointment, almost all the time my husband would come as well. We would sit and we would talk to one of the four midwives, ’cause it’s a practice of four midwives. And we would talk to her for 45 minutes to an hour each appointment.
Like, where in the medical- I know … situation do you get that?
Jamie: Never.
Ruth: Okay. So that’s your standard appointment. So there’s this level of care that, you can’t really quantify because this person actually knows you, and a lot of that is chatting to you about, how you’re feeling, but also what your interests are and all these kinds of things, right?
And they’re evidence-based, so they absolutely do all the testing that you need. They’re always checking on you for fetal growth and all these things. Do they do it with an ultrasound every time? No. They touch you with their hands, we are human. So for me, that made all the sense in the world.
One of my big fears was that I was gonna be high risk in some way and not be able to go with them. I was so glad when my gestational diabetes screening came back negative, I was so glad when I didn’t have high blood pressure. I had a slight scare towards the end where I had a cold and it made my blood pressure go up just a bit, and I was like, “Oh, no. What is this?” And then luckily after the cold passed, I was fine, so I said many times “I’m not scared of having a home birth. I’m scared of not having a home birth.” To me, that was a very obvious choice.
Jamie: What about finding out the gender? Did you do that in your pregnancy?
Ruth: I did, yes. I d- the genetic testing you can find out the gender, and so we did that. And I was … I really did not care. I would’ve been happy either way, but it was extra nice to get a girl, just to have one of each, and I am excited about that.
Jamie: Will you tell us what that was like, and did you find out through email or
Ruth: Yeah. I guess it was an email that then said, “Okay, check your portal, your t- your test results are in,” and that was pretty nerve-wracking I must say. Particularly, okay, the last time the genetics were bad, now here I am, and that, that was a tense moment. But man, when I saw all, everything was normal, and the statistical likelihood of everything had gone way down, ’cause that’s the test that I did. That’s how it was.
It was like, “Okay, you’re not 1 in 23, you’re 1 in 10,000.” I’m like, yeah. No, that was a celebratory day. And then finding out it was a girl was this bonus round. Also because girls do tend to be a little bit more robust because of the two X chromosomes. There’s a lot of genetic disorders that trans- that manifest in men that don’t manifest in women. So I was like, “Okay, extra win.”
Jamie: When did you do this test? Like, how far along were you?
Ruth: I think I did it as soon as I could. I think it was 10 weeks.
Jamie: Okay.
Ruth: By 11 weeks I had the results. So it was also, oh, right around the time that I miscarried last time.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: And another crazy fact, she was born on the date that I miscarried exactly a year ago.
Jamie: Wow.
Ruth: So that’s wild. If anyone’s out there and they’ve had a miscarriage, it’s like that date can change, it can be a really sad day, and then in the future it could be a really happy day.
Jamie: Yeah. You’ll be celebrating it for a long time.
Ruth: And I really am like I m- would’ve liked to not have to go through having miscarriages. I don’t recommend them, but I also wanna add to the narrative that it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe your body is doing exactly what it needs to do.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: And for me, that was something that I told myself going into it, and it was something that I had very palpable proof of through my experiences, so I’m grateful for that.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: And I, I look at this baby that I’m holding now and I’m like, “Yeah, I got this one,” and I like that.
Jamie: And how did you prepare for her arrival? Because you probably didn’t have any baby stuff left over from your son.
Ruth: We’re super minimalists, so- … you would probably laugh at my preparations. Basically, we have a homemade co-sleeper bed that my husband made. It was still attached to our bed because my son, until very recently, would come sometimes down in the night from his bed, and he would come and have a cuddle and then sleep in the little side bed. It needed some renovations. My, my husband made a new liner for it. So that was, like, the big preparation.
And then clothing, we had some left over from my son. We had people giving us more clothes than we know what to do with. I haven’t really done anything else. So no, I didn’t have a lot of preparations.
Jamie: Yeah
Ruth: … I’m not sure where she’ll sleep when she gets big enough to wanna sleep somewhere else. We’re really just playing it by ear, I think part of being a creative is knowing that if I want to make a room for my daughter that is off the edge of my house, I could do that, by the time she’s old enough to want her own room, we might be moving my son out into our vintage Airstream, which is on our property, ’cause he’ll be like 15 or so probably, we’ll see how it goes.
Jamie: Is there anything else you wanna mention about pregnancy before we move on to your birth story?
Ruth: I will say that I was pleasantly surprised. My experience at 31 and my experience at 42 to 43 was not wildly different. It was-
Jamie: Oh, wonderful
Ruth: … the problems I had were familiar. Which is my hip gets weird, and I have to do physical therapy. I get restless legs which is very annoying. And I had it both times. So I was heartened by that fact that the most annoying problems were things that I had already experienced. I did get hemorrhoids towards the end, which was no fun. And even though everyone tells you, “Oh, so common,” you still feel like your body is failing you.
But luckily that has resolved, so if you’re pregnant right now, it probably will get better. But other than that- my experience was really similar. I did have a harder time sleeping on the second pregnancy. Although I do think that’s partially because I have a kid in public school, so I have to be on the public school schedule.
So I wasn’t able to really just be on my own chill artist schedule, we had to get up at 6:30 and stuff. So that didn’t help. But there was definitely … I think in terms of age, I think that was probably the biggest factor is that my sleep is not as robust as it was at 30.
Jamie: Was there any products or anything that helped you that you could recommend?
Ruth: I feel like I tried all the things, and they may have helped, but nothing helped enough for me to really think it was great. I did magnesium calm at night, and sometimes that seemed good. I rubbed magnesium lotion on my legs. Of course, I was taking my prenatal vitamins, like all the things. I tried cherry juice. I did special stretches. N- nothing really seemed to help all that much, or maybe it was all helping a little bit, and it would have been even worse. I did discover powdered coconut water in that pregnancy.
Jamie: Okay
Ruth: which is amazing. So we’re in Florida. It’s super hot. And through the summer, I was really struggling with hydration. And I was like, “I just want something that’s not some nasty energy drink, G- Gatorade-type stuff. I want something natural.” And I couldn’t do anything that was too acidic ’cause it would give me heartburn.
And so I started getting coconut water, and that as soon as you drink it, you’re like, “Okay, this is doing the thing. I can feel it in my body.” And so my husband looked up powdered coconut water ’cause we were getting so much of it. And it’s a wonderful thing. You can buy it online, and it’s just like you put it into regular water, and it’s just this powder, and that is very good for pregnancy.
I drank a lot of that. It also helps keep you hydrated in a way that keeps your bowels moving well. So it really helps with constipation.
Jamie: Very nice …
Ruth: depending on your problem. It is delicious, and you can make it as strong or as weak as you like.
Jamie: Awesome.
Ruth: I’m still ta- I’m still drinking it now.
Jamie: Oh, yeah. If you’re breastfeeding, y- it’s a whole-
Ruth: Oh, God …
Jamie: plus. How did labor start for you?
Ruth: One of my biggest fears was that I would go late, I would go long, and then- and you’re not allowed to do a home birth. My due date came, and my son was 11 days late, which I was losing my mind on that one because I really wanted my home birth, and, there’s nothing you can do really. Y- they tell you things you can do, but nothing actually makes it happen until-
Jamie: Yes
Ruth: the baby’s ready. That’s really what’s happening here. And I really did not want to be induced. Heard way too many terrible stories about induction. I was scared about that. But luckily, this little lady, the night of her due date, I was like I feel some things,” but who knows? At this point, at nine, months pregnant, you’re like-
…
Ruth: I feel all kinds of things, everything’s achy and weird and, but that night I woke up at 4:30 in the morning, Ooh … and I was starting to have actual contractions. Oh. So yeah, it started that night.
So she was born January 6th. My due date was January 5th, so she was born the day after.
Jamie: Oh, nice. Walk us through the whole story.
Ruth: Okay. So my contractions started at 4:30, but I knew they weren’t close enough to call the midwife yet. But around 5:30 or so I was, like wiggling around, and my husband noticed, and we did call the midwife around then and she was like, “Oh, good,” “let me know when they’re four minutes apart and lasting one minute each.” That’s the classic thing. That’s when they want to come to your house.
Jamie: So we- So you were
Ruth: just staying
Jamie: in bed at this time?
Ruth: Okay. I was just staying in bed, yeah. I did get up and walk around and, I’m someone who’s… i’ve been through natural childbir- childbirth once, and indeed actually, my 11 week miscarriage, another reason that it gave me confidence was it really did feel like labor, and I was “Okay, I know what this is. I can do this.” So I was walking around my house and my son woke up and, I was just kinda breathing through it all, and I probably took a shower at some point there, which feels amazing when you’re in labor.
About 7:00 we called the midwives, and they were kinda like, “Okay we’re coming over,” because the contractions were getting close enough that it really made sense. And so I think I was actually in the shower when they arrived, I wanna say. I’m in labor, and I’m, I’m someone who’s very familiar with going into kind of an altered state of trance to really do my thing, I don’t need a lot of support for that. I was just there. So I was breathing, I was making all kinds of crazy noises because I had read that this is helpful in labor, to make crazy noises, and indeed I think it was.
So I was doing lots of oohs and ahs and, I bounced between the bed and the shower, and my husband was bringing me hot water bottles. And the midwives, as soon as they come, they’re, like, checking in on me. So they’re checking every half an hour, and then every 15 minutes when it got closer to the time on me and on the baby.
I was so happy my blood pressure did not spike. And the baby stayed rock solid. Her little heartbeat was super good. We did this for another couple hours. I was, like, in and out of the shower and the bed and hooting and making noises.
And my son was here and he would check in on me, but he was, like, not… he was not hands-on participant. He was letting me have my space. As was everyone, actually. A lot of the time I was, in the bed by myself just making noises, and my midwives and my husband were, in the other room, and they would come check on me and, then my husband would feed me ice cream in the shower.
They were just giving me care, but also giving me space. Which I think was perfect for what I needed.
Jamie: Did you let them check you for how far along you were, like dilation?
Ruth: No. Okay. I decided against that because in my previous pregnancy they… I’d had them check. I really was like how far along am I?” And they were like, “Oh, two centimeters,” and that was so demoralizing
Jamie: Yeah …
Ruth: that I didn’t want them to. And I was like, what are we gonna do?
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: At this point my water had not broken, so it was on no one’s clock, this might go on for another 24 hours or not, I didn’t think it would, I, there was no critical clock that I was on.
So I was happy to just let it run its course. And I thought that was mentally better for me than to be like, to hear that I was some number dilated or not, so it ended up Just waiting out.
It did take another couple hours and my water still had not broken, which my previous pregnancy my water broke 12 hours before any contractions started.
Jamie: Wow.
Ruth: Which is a whole nother you’re on the clock schedule thing. So they were, they kept checking on me, particularly when I was in the shower. They’d be like, “Let us know when your water breaks,”
Jamie: yeah.
Ruth: So finally I remember one time I got out of the shower and I was on the toilet and, I seemed to bounce back and forth from the toilet to the bed a lot, as one does. And it was like a gunshot or a bicycle tire exploding, and that was my membrane breaking and my water breaking.
Jamie: Oh.
Ruth: It was insane. And It was really very loud. They were in the other room and they rushed in and “That was your water breaking?” I was like, “Yeah, that’s…” Then they check the color of the water and they check on me.
So after that, I really started getting the urge to push. I knew enough to wait for that urge, I think a lot of tearing and issues happen when you try to push just ’cause you’re dilated. And so I was not gonna do that. Several contractions after my water broke I really started getting the urge to push, and the sounds I was making changed, and I got even more primal.
I was on the bed a little bit, and I was really trying to make it work on the bed, and I just couldn’t get comfortable. I had a yoga ball. I had pillows. It was just uncomfortable and awkward. So I ended up going back into the bathroom and I was on the toilet and pushing. And they’re like, “Let us know when you really feel that crowning feeling,” and I was like, “Ah.” My midwife advised me to breathe in a certain way at that moment to resist tearing, and I, which I did. I was on the toilet, then I would stand up, and she would check me, and, it was all very right there. And I pushed for about eight minutes, and she came out.
Jamie: Just eight minutes.
Ruth: Yeah. So that’s, when you really wait for that urge to push, is the most effective method, apparently. And the midwives were both there, and they were helping her, and it was a weird geometry. I remember I was, like, standing, holding onto a towel rack.
They’re like, “Put your foot up on the bath,” so I did, and they’re, like, both assisting me and somehow got this baby out. I didn’t really know what was going on, but the baby came out. And then I was sitting on the toilet again, holding a baby.
Jamie: So you gave birth standing up.
Ruth: I did. I did. Yeah, which actually I did previously as well. Okay. So yeah, I was standing up. And statistically, it’s actually a very good way to give birth.
Jamie: Gravity
Ruth: helps … gravity helped, yeah. It’s tricky ’cause when you’re sitting down and you’re, like, pushing and you have to stand in that moment, it feels impossible, but then you do it anyway.
So yeah I pushed standing up. They got the baby out, very quickly. She was crying and clearly fine. Although they were right there checking on her and stuff. She had a true knot in her cord, which is pretty rare. Oh. So she had tied a knot in her … as kite flyers who tie millions of knots we were very proud.
Jamie: She’s destined to be a kite also.
Ruth: She’s gonna make beautiful things, I just know it.
Jamie: Yes.
Ruth: Yeah, so she had a super long cord and a knot in it. Then I moved to the bed, so the placenta is still inside, and I had this slippery little baby that I’m trying to not drop. So we move into the bed, and chill for a little while, and I’m, like, trying to get her to latch, and she was kinda thinking about it, but not really.
As they do when they first come out. They’re checking on me and checking on her and doing all the things. And we did delayed cl- cord clamping so we waited for her cord to get nice and empty. Although it didn’t quite empty out past the knot quite, but it was fine.
Then we cut it, and then it was like, they’re like, “Okay, we need to deliver the placenta, tick-tock.” So they did end up giving me some … Is it Pitocin that they give you? It’s a shot. Okay. To just encourage the placenta to come out, and it did work, so I had the shot and then placenta came out. Which I was very relieved.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: Cause that’s it’s a moment in a home birth where you might have to go to the hospital, so if your placenta’s not coming out. But-
Jamie: For the placenta. Yeah … that’s wild.
Ruth: If it stays in, it’s not good,
Jamie: yeah.
Ruth: It’s a whole thing.
Jamie: What was like sitting on the toilet holding your new baby-
that you just gave birth to.
Ruth: Y- I felt pretty proud in that moment, yeah. I… It was slippery and painful, and I felt pretty good that I had done it, for my son I had to push for four and a half hours. So it was really nice to only push for eight minutes. And what I was super proud of was that when they examined me they’re like, “You didn’t tear.”
And I was like, “Yes, I didn’t tear.”
Jamie: Amazing.
Ruth: I know. So make lots of noises if you’re pregnant- … and you’re doing natural delivery. Hoot and holler, it’s okay. ‘Cause I had read that these, particularly low guttural noises help prepare your tissues, and I must say it seemed to work. It sure felt like tearing when she was coming out, but no, I didn’t tear.
And recovery since her birth has been way smoother than my previous recovery because of that.
Husband: It sounded very pleasurable, but it was not.
Ruth: He was listening to me hooting and hollering, and it did have a certain, yeah, a sound of… that could’ve been pleasure, but it was not. I really tried.
I could see that. I was like- I
Jamie: could see that …
Ruth: I was like, “If anyone can make this whole birthing orgasmic, it should be me.” No. No. Not orgasmic. Very intense, very painful. But we got through it, and I came out on the other side very proud and very relieved that I’m not gonna be doing that ever again.
‘Cause- Oh, good … I’m proud to be a mom at 43. I’m quite finished.
Jamie: You’re very done. It’s good. Okay.
Ruth: I’m very done.
Jamie: You mentioned you were trying- I am happy … to get her to latch on the bed. Did you… Were you successful?
Ruth: A little bit, yeah. I mean- … I was putting her on my breast and stuff and- eventually she latched and, she’s nursing well. But yeah, in those first moments they’re always so slippery and kinda out of it, but-
Jamie: Yeah …
Ruth: she was putting her mouth in the right place.
Jamie: How is breastfeeding going?
Ruth: It’s really going quite well. I have a lot of experience. I breastfed my son for three and a half years,
Jamie: amazing.
Ruth: Yeah I’m a breast warrior. I do think she might have a little bit of a tongue tie, so we are taking her to the doctor this week. She’s feeding well, but she does burp a lot, so we’re that can sometimes be an indicator. But she’s gaining weight and my nipples are fine, and I’m exclusively breastfeeding, so I’m very much I’m on duty.
Jamie: That’s amazing
Ruth: … but it also means I don’t have to deal with pumps or bottles or anything, which-
Jamie: Yes …
Ruth: I think it’s the right choice for me. I know not everyone can do it that way, but I had considered pumping this time because, I would love for my boys to be able to feed her. But I just can’t quite make it work in my reality. I’m happy to just be the source of all milk.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: They just bring her into me when she needs milk. We both work from home, so it’s pretty ideal.
Jamie: Yeah. Do you plan to breastfeed for three and a half years again?
Ruth: I’m planning to breastfeed for two. Okay … it might extend to longer.
Jamie: Okay
Ruth: … but I definitely want to do two. And I don’t see a reason that I wouldn’t unless some weird health thing happens, or if she really wants to wean early. But yeah, no I love breastfeeding. I don’t typically have too many problems with it. It’s an ordeal, it’s a lot, at this point, probably the thing that’s suffering the most is my body ’cause I’m just always holding, just trying to get the right position.
But that gets easier as she gets bigger, so I know that. Yeah. But
Jamie: Wonderful. Mentally, how are you right now?
Ruth: quite well. It’s actually been a huge help to have Otto, my son, as another pair of hands to hold her. And he is so good with her. It’s beyond expectation. He will… She’ll be fussy, and he’ll come grab her from me and-
Jamie: Aw
Ruth: Do these little movements that he’s found to calm her down, and he’s happy to have her contact nap on him and all this kind of stuff, and he’s excited for when she’s more awake and actually a person. That has helped a lot.
I think knowing what I’m in for has helped a lot. I still have tough moments where, like last night she woke up every hour and a half, two hours, and that’s harder than the nights where she sleeps four hours, I wouldn’t say that it’s easy, but I feel mentally pretty solid. I haven’t felt too wonky crazy postpartum-y this go around, mostly it’s “Oh, I really need to eat something,” that’s when I really get wonky. And if I can stay on top of that, I’m okay.
I’ve had a couple moments where I’m just weepy and, it doesn’t really make sense. … But I think also for my husband he has the experience of helping me through last time with our son and then, postpartum after a miscarriage.
I’ll take, having a beautiful baby over that any day. I think that experience has helped us to be a little bit more understanding of what this moment is like. So I’m feeling pretty good.
This last week I started work again, so I’m trying to paint, I’m writing emails, and that’s a little bit stressful, and it, it puts pressure on you because you’re like, “I’m trying to get things done. Why isn’t she napping like she did yesterday?” And I know that they don’t really have a, much of a schedule until they’re, a couple months older than this.
Yeah. Just trying to be- Gracious with myself about not putting too much pressure on getting things done. And it’s going okay so far. We’ll see.
Jamie: So your family feels complete with two, two babies?
Ruth: It does, yeah. I was never a I want lots of kids person, so two to me sounds like a big family, forever it was just I had the one only child, so two is extra wonderful.
So my own family that I’m from I have a brother that’s close in age to me, about three years younger, and then I have a sister who’s 13 years younger, and she was a total surprise baby. My mother had her at 45.
Jamie: Amazing
Ruth: … so that’s another piece of my story is that, my mother had this totally unexpected pregnancy at 45. And I was actually there for her home birth, so that, definitely influenced my understanding of birth and my lack of fear around it.
And, we were a family of two, and then we were a family of three. But I’m not seeing that for me. I’m like, “I’m quite happy to have two kids.” I feel like that’s something that I can maintain and, not have to, no longer travel and that kind of stuff.
Jamie: What has been your biggest challenge being pregnant over 40?
Ruth: I think sleep was really a hard thing for me. I do think that related to my age, because my sleep before I got pregnant was different than it was in my 30s.
I think another thing that was great about the midwives that I went with is they never called me geriatric pregnancy. Like- Oh, how nice … they mentioned advanced maternal age a couple times, but they were, like, always my cheerleaders. They always 1,000% believed in me. They were just telling me how healthy and wonderful I was, and indeed at my birth, they were really appreciative of, like, how I handled it, and so complimentary that I didn’t feel that I was, like, someone who was too old to be doing this. Honestly, I wish that everyone could have the level of care that I did with my midwives.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: Because I do think it’s really important the way that they care for the whole person. It’s not just about another blood test.
Jamie: Yeah …
Ruth: it’s about really getting to know you, you feel like they really know you. So when they show up at your house at, some ungodly hour of the night, and you’re in that tough moment they’re a friend showing up.
Jamie: Yeah.
Ruth: Yes.
Jamie: Is there anything you’d recommend that would prepare someone for pregnancy and birth over
Ruth: 40?
I would say take care of yourself, I would say stay active. Invest in yourself in all the ways that you can with nutrition and activity level, even if it’s just walking. That was another thing I did is After dinner I would go for walks and I tried to do that really regularly, and I know that helps with diabetes.
It’s like there are a lot of things that you could do to weigh the scales in your favor, I also took, tiny baby aspirins, towards the second half of my pregnancy. I would take a tiny baby aspirin every day, ’cause that helps the likelihood of having preeclampsia.
So there’s, like, all these little things that you can do. I think a lot of people that are facing pregnancy in their 40s, it’s ’cause you’re you’re a go-getter woman in one way or another, and maybe you’ve put this off. And just know that if you are pregnant you are doing this crazy thing.
You don’t have to be at your same level of activity, that you are normally. You don’t have to be crossing things off your to-do list. You’re doing the thing, and just remembering that and trying to enjoy it.
Jamie: What advice would you give yourself when you were pregnant if you could go back?
Ruth: Probably that. Be okay with doing less, and I was telling myself that all the time, and I listened to it some of the time. Oh. I would have liked to have done more physical activity, I did what I could do. Yeah.
Husband: Oh.
Ruth: I’m pretty happy with how I handled it, i’m on the other side of it, and I see that a lot of the things I did helped, yeah. And I am pleased with my birth outcome. It was not orgasmic, but we did both survive. But I didn’t tear, and it didn’t take that, that long. It was like 10 hours.
Jamie: Yeah. I think that’s great. We have a lot of listeners who are trying to conceive over 40. What advice do you have for those women?
Ruth: Oh, have fun. Have a lot of sex. Really. I think that trying to conceive is such a heavy thing.
… And the more fun you can have, try and hold onto that, don’t let it become a chore, yeah. That’s something that, was really important to me, and people ask- would ask me “Oh, are you gonna do fertility stuff? You gonna do that?”
I was always clear that I was not going to, because I have a child, so I’m not… my situation is different. If I had not had a child at 30, and I was 40 trying to conceive, I probably would have thought much more about doing fertility things. But I was quite clear that I did not want it to become that if it happened.
Jamie: Yeah. Would you like to tell us more about your books?
Ruth: I’d love to. My books are all about this character, Lonely Bird. She is a little drawing who has come to life, and she exists as a little black and white drawing against a fully rendered a oil-painted reality. Lonely Bird, and her experience of existing kind of on the edge of our reality and making art and going on adventures.
It’s been so rewarding to go into schools and read my books to kids and see how kids understand this character of Lonely Bird, because she’s really a way of talking about the loneliness of being a bit of an outsider, a bit of a weirdo of someone who takes the path less traveled and has a beautiful experience of that.
There’s two books that are currently published. Lonely Bird is the first, and Lonely Bird’s Dream is the second. I’m currently working on the third, Lonely Bird’s Idea. In both of them she has wonderful adventures, and she does indeed find ways to connect and have friendships.
They should be in libraries or bookstores near you. They’re for sale everywhere.
Jamie: Awesome. Would you like to share your links and where people can connect with you?
Ruth: Yes. You can find out about me and my books on ruthwhiting.com. That’s my website. We also have some really interesting artwork on my shared hus- website with my husband, which is windfiredesigns.com. You can also find me on Instagram at ruth_whiting. That’s my handle on Instagram.
Jamie: Wonderful.
Ruth: So yeah.
Jamie: Ruth, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story with us.
Ruth: Thank you for having me. When I was pregnant and, I sound all confident now, but, there was a time where I was, 13 weeks pregnant after having a miscarriage and it’s been really helpful to see positive stories of women over 40 having babies.
I love that I can be part of that. I really do think that the only way that we reframe this whole narrative that surrounds motherhood, and particularly later motherhood is to claim it for ourselves and to tell our stories.