115. After five years of failed treatments, devastating losses, and the sting of unexplained infertility diagnoses, Jen Richards thought she was running out of options in her mid-forties. But a surprising conversation with an old friend opened a brand-new door on her fertility hallway, proving that sometimes, the family you dream of arrives in the most beautifully uncharted ways.
On episode 115, fertility coach Jen Richards shares her raw, beautiful, and seven-year-long journey to motherhood. From navigating the confusing world of unexplained infertility at age 40 to experiencing the BOGO “dating website” swirl of sperm banks and the heartbreaking silence of a 13-week miscarriage, Jen opens up about what it really takes to survive the emotional trenches of late-30s and 40-plus family building.
Jen shares the incredible, fortuitous turning point in her story: navigating the “new frontier” of private embryo donation after a close friend offered a basket of hope. We talk about the unspoken realities of a 48-hour C-section labor, the severe postpartum anxiety that followed her victory, and the liberating day she finally said goodbye to the breast pump. Whether you are currently staring down a difficult medical crossroads, considering donor options, or looking for permission to let go of a strict natural birth plan, Jen’s relentless hope and grounded wisdom will make you feel less alone in the woods of your own journey.
About the Guest
Jen Richards is a certified fertility coach and digital content creator who helps women navigate the emotional highs and lows of trying to conceive, pregnancy, and postpartum life. Following her own hard-fought, seven-year path to motherhood,which included overcoming unexplained infertility, enduring a silent miscarriage, undergoing fibroid surgery, and ultimately finding success through embryo donation, Jen pivoted her career to become a dedicated advocate and “doula for the fertility process.” Through one-on-one coaching and support, she provides an empathetic, real-talk space for women to troubleshoot tough medical decisions, manage waiting-zone anxiety, and embrace the many beautiful ways to build a modern family.
Connect with Jen:
- Instagram: @jenrichardsfertility
- Website: Jen Richards Fertility
Key Topics
- The Reality of Advanced Maternal Age: Navigating the initial shock of low AMH numbers, avoiding the “geriatric pregnancy” stigma in medicine, and knowing when to immediately fast-track to specialists at age 40.
- Unexplained Infertility & The Donor Hallway: The emotional shift from trying with a partner’s sperm to utilizing donor sperm banks, navigating failed IUIs, and moving past the desire for a biological connection.
- The “New Frontier” of Embryo Donation: Understanding the difference between agency matching (and the heartbreak of age-priority allocations) versus private embryo donation between friends, including the legalities and logistics of transport.
- Surviving Silent Miscarriage & Surgical Delays: Processing the devastation of a second-trimester loss, advocate tips for moving scheduling boundaries for necessary fibroid surgeries, and calming the nervous system through alternative modalities like Reiki and holistic medicine.
- An Honest Postpartum & Breastfeeding Account: A transparent look into postpartum anxiety and hormonal sleep struggles, utilizing safe medication, managing the guilt of “not feeling purely joyful,” navigating the ups and downs of a child’s nursing preferences, and fostering open relationships with biological siblings.
Resources & Links
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Transcript
Jamie: Jen, welcome to the show.
Jen: Hi, Jamie. Thanks so much for having me.
Jamie: Jen did embryo adoption and was pregnant at 47. But Jen, before we get started, will you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Jen: I am now 48. I live in Tacoma, Washington with my husband, our baby Jason, who is 16 months old and I have three wonderful stepdaughters, but they are adults, so one is in college, she’s 21, and the other two are in their early 30s living their own lives.
Our family recently welcomed its first grandbaby, so my baby is an uncle cousin, as we like to call him. They’re one year and four days apart.
Jamie: That’s fun. I’m sure they’ll definitely grow up like cousins.
Jen: Yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah.
Jamie: That’s fun. Did you always want to have kids growing up?
Jen: My mom is super nurturing, and I think I just saw her example. I always imagined I would have kids.
In college I briefly had a spell of Oh, wait, the world’s overpopulated. Maybe I shouldn’t have kids, or, When I get older I’ll have to adopt, that’s like the better thing to do. But even in that kind of thought, I was still like, Maybe adoption then. I think even thinking Oh, is it selfish to have a baby when I’m older? And this is me at 19 in that swirl of intellectual growth and figuring things out.
But then I went back to no I would really to have a, have kids, but I was always open to adoption, which of course later proved to be good thing that I was open-minded to various methods of growing a family.
Jamie: Yeah. Tell us, how did it all begin? Like, when did you get married, and how did y’all talk about having kids?
Jen: I was 40 and we met through a mutual friend. I think on our first or second date, I was like, I just have to tell you that I wanna try to have a baby. I thought this might scare him away to do this so soon, but I also thought, I’m 40, I’m not messing around here. If it’s a deal breaker, best we get that out of the way.
We were already hitting it off so I really thought just to be honest. And he took me by the hand and said, “I have a great feeling about you, too. Of course it’s early to say, but if this keeps going and that’s something you need, then we’ll do our best to make sure you have a baby.” He’s 12 years older than me, he’s has three daughters. So he was in a much different place… He wasn’t imagining he’d try to have more kids.
But obviously we’re married so he was very open and supportive of my dream.
Jamie: Awesome. So tell us about trying to conceive.
Jen: Yeah. I guess one of the good things about being 40 plus is like I, I think generally you know, and I did right from the jump, like this is maybe gonna be really hard. I’m definitely not just a young fertile thing anymore. And so I immediately talked to my doctor and was like: “Should, are there– Should we do the hormone test? What should we do?” And they luckily were very happy to just not do the thing where you try for a year before anyone,
Jamie: oh, thank goodness.
Jen: I didn’t even have to get on a soapbox like I wanna skip that part. So the initial testing, my AMH was on the lower end, and my thyroid was a little off and-
Jamie: Do you remember any of those numbers?
Jen: Oh, oof. It wasn’t super low, but it was definitely in the upper part of the low range. I apologize that I don’t have exact figures on that. The numbers were iffy enough that they immediately referred me to Seattle Reproductive Medicine and said, “Let’s get you right to an endocrinologist and go forward.” Then they flushed my tubes to see if there were any blockages, and did the series of other tests you do.
My husband had a vasectomy and then a reversal, so he also got all checked out and tested. His sperm quality was okay. But I guess it’s generally never as good as it was. At least that’s what our doctors told us.
I was found to have unexplained infertility. What do we do with that?
Jamie: Yeah, which is nothing.
Jen: I certainly didn’t wanna be told I had some very specific intense problem, I think at least when you have a name and you know what it is, there’s especially if you’re an action step-oriented person and a good student like I previously was, like, “Okay, I can study this and I can tackle it.”
Unexplained infertility just feels a lot more like how do I, combat that? So we quickly went to doing IUIs in the hopes that would, maybe that would be enough of an intervention. We only did one with my husband’s sperm since it didn’t test very well and he’d had the vasectomy and reversal.
Then we switched, we did five with donor sperm. This is when I’m still 40 and 41. We got right down to business.
Jamie: How was that conversation with your husband about doing donor sperm?
Jen: Yeah, that’s a great question. My youngest stepdaughter, they adopted from China. So my husband has children that were conceived biologically, a daughter that he adopted from China, so he was already very open-minded, which I was so thankful for.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Because I think a lot of times that can be a lot more difficult for people- … than it was for him.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: So he was in full support, and he was just like, You pick the donor. He didn’t wanna he- So my girlfriends and I shopped for donors.
Jamie: How fun.
Jen: He was like, “I’m not, I don’t need to help pick.” And I was like, If you want to, you can. And Seattle, the Seattle Sperm Bank, at least for a long time, I hope they still do this, they would have BOGO sperm, buy one get one free on the vials-
of sperm. So there’d be three donors each month that they’d feature. It felt like a dating website. They’d be like, “These are our featured donors.” And I had a girlfriend going through it at the same time, and we were like we’re definitely gonna pick from the BOGO sperm guys,” because fertility treatments are so expensive. It was like, this is the best. Okay, I can at least get two for one price on these.
Jamie: Yeah. But what a great experience to go through it with a girlfriend.
Jen: Yeah. We would send each other, “I’m thinking about this,” and this guy has a background in music and loves nature and studied this in college. It really reminded me when I’d been on online dating and girlfriends and I would, do that same thing.
Jamie: One question. Did y’all ever consider using the same donor?
Jen: Yes, we talked about that, and that it would be, like, really cool to do. I don’t think we ever actually ended up with the timing quite right at the exact time.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: Sadly, all five of my IUIs with donor sperm failed. One was a chemical pregnancy, but it was abortive-
Jamie: Okay
Jen: … of a pregnancy. But we had talked about it, and we’re very open to it.
Jamie: That would’ve been really fun.
Jen: Yeah. Absolutely. So my doctor, my fertility doctor, she was really cool, and she was like, “Okay,” “your fertility journey is a hallway, and there’s all these doors, and I’m gonna walk you through.” And some people go through, almost every door before we get to baby.
And some people are like, “We’re not comfortable with that door,” or if my husband had been more uncomfortable with donor sperm, right- … we might have skipped that door. She said that, “The next door I really wanna talk to you about is donor embryo.” She said, “I don’t think with your low AMH numbers and your age, and then, your husband’s sperm being kinda not where we want it to be, I think doing egg retrievals and IVF with your guys’ stuff is ill-advised.
It’s gonna be so expensive, so much stress to you and your body, and I think our percentage of chances would be really low that you would conceive a baby.” So there was a sting to that, of course. I wa- I was very much open to it not being my biological baby, but I was still hoping that would maybe be what unfolded.
Embryo adoption was also something I had never heard of, or embryo donation I think has become more of the appropriate term. So I was like tell me what it is,” and so she did, and it was like when people do IVF, they often have their embryos remaining. There’s three choices: they can be donated to science, they can be destroyed, or they can be donated to a known party or an unknown party through various agencies or sometimes through the clinics themselves or through private people to people with a lawyer.
And she’s I think you’re a great candidate for that. You’re healthy. I think we can work with getting your womb and everything and the lining just right. And so that would be what you should consider doing next if I were you.
Jamie: Now, have you heard the term snowflake adoption?
Jen: I have heard the term, but remind me.
Jamie: It is embryo adoption. Oh, okay. It’s just a nickname for it. I think it’s a really nice name for it.
Jen: That’s really sweet. Yeah.
Jamie: He was, sorry.
Jen: Each embryo is a snowflake, right? Yeah. Each little baby to be is so y- their own little miracle and the cells-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … look different when you put under the microscope.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: So then I dove into researching all the embryo donation agencies. There was one my doctor recommended, which we went with them.
Jamie: Oh, there’s whole agencies just for embryos.
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: Some clinics have their own in-house where it’s like you do it through your clinic, and so they have patients who say, We’ve grown our family. We’ll leave these with you for science or to give to another woman or family or couple. And the Seattle Reproductive Medicine at the time said we work with other agencies that only do the matching of people in need of embryos with people who have them.
My understanding is that application was very similar to what traditional adoption application is. I had to have a home visit from a social worker. We had to do a few sessions of counseling. I had to write a ton of essays and intake, and I had to make a book about our family and our life, and that would be sent to people who would consider us to donate to, and they would get to…
they would get to learn all about us, see us, see where we live, the area around us, and what kind of environment we would have for their embryo. So you do a lot of work upfront on creating all that for potential prospective donors to read about you. And then similar to dating or matchmaking service, like you wait and cross all your fingers to be picked. The donors pick.
That took months and months. Now I’m 42, 43. It took about a year from starting the application for donor embryos to our first match. And that can vary certainly too. But it definitely, it’s not quick.
The first time I got that message that there was a donor family that liked us and was interested in us, and then we get sent information about them, and you get to say yes or no. But I joked with my husband, I’m like, who’s gonna say no? They’d have to be really something so wild about… I just don’t even know what it would be. The agency has vetted all parties, and make sure everyone’s healthy, and they really try to match you with people of similar lifestyle and education when they can, ethnic background, like it’s as close to they would resemble you biologically as possible and just everyone’s comfortable That you have a similar cultural background, so that would be honored if the parents, the donor parents want that.
I was over the moon when we got our first match, and the only little thing that was a bit of a eek they on- there was only one embryo. So- We matched with someone with one embryo, and I just thought, “Oh, no,” if it doesn’t work. And I asked what happens, and she said I’ll rematch you,” “so you’ll be rematched.” And so I said, “Okay,” “Let’s do it then.” So at 43 I did my first embryo transfer and it failed.
Jamie: Were you pregnant at all?
Jen: No.
Jamie: It was just a fail? Ugh.
Jen: It just totally failed, and it had been so long to get to that one.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And then, she said now I’ll work on another match.” And so I just had to kinda go back to that waiting zone. I was doing a lot of, trying to eat healthy and acupuncture and, a lot of us I think just try to do all the things, right? Or so many of those things. What can I do to not go crazy and to improve my chances? Yeah. But about another six, seven months went by and we got another match.
Jamie: Okay. Oh, six or seven months?
Jen: Yes. And you’re, you know- Ugh … and you’re just… And I remember friends being like, “Why don’t you call her up and tell her you can’t wait this long?”
And I was like, you know who’s like bad naughty list I don’t wanna be on? Or whose like squeaky wheel list? I called her the embryo, matchmaker. You know- … the goddess of the embryos. It’s like I do not wanna be someone she is annoyed by.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: So I, I appreciate the sentiment, and I totally get why you would say that, but that’s the last thing I’m gonna do is call her up-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: And be demanding about embryos.
Jamie: How do you get this information? Is it through email or a phone call? Like ’cause the anticipation, right? And then are you checking your phone for an email all the time? Or are you waiting for a phone call?
Jen: Yes to checking email all the time. But occasionally she would call me, but that was more if she had one little question or, like- this, the donor couple wants, prospective donor couple wants to know X about you guys.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: But usually it was an email, and it would be the most, you’d be the most elated, right? When that email comes in that there’s a prospective match for you, it’s I imagine that’s what winning the lottery feels like.
I don’t know. Like- Yeah … I haven’t had that experience. It was just like, “Oh my gosh, another match.” A, but again, it was one embryo. And my heart- Ugh … just sunk a little bit as I’m reading about them, and they s- of course seemed lovely and we studied the same things in college. So it’s true, they really tried to match us up that way and… which wouldn’t have mattered if they didn’t, but it was just kinda cool to see sometimes how much in common we had.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And so it was a one embryo match, but we went for it because, again I didn’t really feel I was in a position to demand a match with more embryos, which would also mean waiting if I said no to a match, it went right back- … to the waiting game, which I was not interested in. So then that embryo transfer happened when I was 44, and it again, it just, it didn’t even take. It just nothing.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: We immediately went back into the waiting and she said, the good news is I’ll keep making matches. You pay a big fee up front, at least through the program we did. And they essentially try to work with you until you have a baby. So that was, one of the plus sides. But I just thought, I’m just getting older. These matches are taking so long.
After the second one failed, I like, in the most polite way I could muster to her, I was just like, I was just wondering if you think there’s any possibility that maybe my next match might have more than one embryo. And she very bluntly said, and I appreciated her honesty I the donors that have more embryos I try to match with younger moms-to-be.”
Jamie: To have more babies.
Jen: To have, yeah, siblings.
Jamie: Oh.
Jen: So subsequent. But my initial thought was like but isn’t it just older gals like me in your bus- like, coming to you for help? I’m not… Of course sometimes younger people have fertility issues, and I’m not diminishing that or dismissing that, I, with particularly your podcast focuses on women 40 plus. I thought, Come on, you’ve gotta mostly be working with other gals in my age range.
Jamie: What did she say?
Jen: She said she did get some younger families and she just wanted to give the multiple embryo matches to the couples that would be most likely to have multiple babies. Which I, I can appreciate. But it was disheartening as I was just really wanting to be a mom and Getting older by the day.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Quite literally feeling like this is taking a long time.
Jamie: Yeah. Now you’re 44 now in your journey. Did you know that your stepdaughter was gonna have a baby soon? Was that coinciding with your journey?
Jen: I knew that she very much wanted to be a mom.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: But they were also trying to pay off student debt, and they were really thinking-
Jamie: Okay …
Jen: we need to get a little more settled in our life. So they weren’t officially trying yet at that point,
Jamie: Okay …
Jen: when, where I’m at and where we are in the story. Okay. And so then we were waiting for our next match. And I got a phone call from a good girlfriend I had served in the Peace Corps with and had stayed friends with since we had been overseas in Africa together volunteering.
And she told me that her sister and brother-in-law had embryos, and they had heard me talk about my journey at a gathering when my friend had been in town and they’d had a party for her and that they wanted to know if I’d be comfortable if they reached out to me to discuss possibly, them donating their embryos to me and my husband.
And I just… It’s one of the most magical moments I can remember my whole life of, like when just the beauty of humanity and that sometimes people just show up or something shows up in your life that’s more amazing than you could possibly imagine. The… so even that they had thought of us and were of course, immediately said, Oh, yes, absolutely. I would love to talk to them about that.
Jamie: Can you call them right now?
Jen: Yeah, I was like, “How soon can we talk?” I was out of state visiting family, but I was like… I told my family, I’m like, I have to go be in the bedroom alone for a while, work on something.
‘Cause I couldn’t wait. I was like, Yes, immediately please.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: So I, her sister and I talked right away and, she told me they they had done IVF and they had one, one little girl, and they realized they, they were really happy having one child, but they also really wanted their other embryos to get to help someone else have, or even multiple people potentially have kids.
And that they would wanna do it as an open thing where the kids would know each other and learn about each other, and that was one of their first questions for me is would my husband and I be open to that. And I was just like, “Of course.” And it would be my preference, honestly.
Like- My natural state is really open and… But, if they had said, “We– And we never wanna talk to you again, and we just wanna give this to you,” I would’ve still said yes. I would’ve- I would’ve what-whatever you– the donor gets director’s cut on, like- … how this is gonna go, and fine with me.
But it was also our preference if we move forward with this, we’d all stay connected. So then I got to rapidly learn about embryo donation privately. O-outside of the agency, I had to, I talked to my nurse at my clinic, and she said, “Here’s a couple lawyers we recommend.
They’re right here in town, and they specialize in this, so they can drop all the paperwork, and you’ll have a meeting or two, but it goes pretty quick, and There’s a few decisions about what if, you and your husband split up, and then you still have their embryos?
Do you still get to keep them?” And- and it was really interesting ’cause it’s also, of course what if you die, or what if they die? You had to kinda just mark boxes and say what happens in the event of all these potential eventualities. So it was both kinda just morbid and strange and, but thorough.
I was like, “Great. How fa- I can run the paperwork over to them. I can run to your lawyer’s office.” I was, like, all over town sign here,” da. I wanted to just get going. Again, the clock is just still running, and we’re not, getting anywhere.
Right in the midst of doing the paperwork with them, the agency reached out to say they had another match for me. And she was like, “And I have extra good news. There are two embryos.” And I remember my husband said, “Maybe you should tell her we don’t need those now because we’re getting three from friends.”
And I wish I had a picture or video of my face when I tell you I was like a mama bear, mama lion, and I growled and was like- … this is my embryo basket, which so far is maybe once in a blue moon had one little embryo, which has then gone away. I was like, “Now I’m, like, gathering ye embryos. I’m gonna have five in my basket.” I was like, “If you think I’m telling her anything about this other situation, you’re crazy, babe.” Like-
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: I’m not, I’ve just watched two just instantly fail. I’m not about- Yeah … to deny embryos coming to us. If the universe sees fit to give them to us. So I was concurrently doing the paperwork for both.
Like when you’re matching for embryos, it’s like you get a match, but then there’s all this legal documents to sign and figure out the shipping and so it’s just weeks and weeks, become sometimes months of all the admin side. And those donor embryos were actually across town at another clinic, and so I got to go pick them up myself.
I got to go pick up the cryo tank and save about 800 bucks on paying an official courier to drive them across town. So I was like, I work part-time right now. I’m f- this is my biggest project. I will pick up the embryos.
Jamie: Yeah. How, what was that feeling like?
Jen: It was exciting, especially after so much of the time you’re just waiting and trying to distract yourself. And I took a selfie of me with the, a tank in the backseat and a big sign on it what it was, and it’s me getting ready to drive them. And our friends who donated us their embryos, they went through the same clinic as me. So those embryos were already right at the clinic, which just felt-
Jamie: Oh, easy
Jen: so fortuitous, and yeah, easy, and it felt like a good sign. So then my husband and I got to have the conversation and kind of the debate of what order do we, go in. And the the paperwork was actually done on the donor embryos first, but we decided we really wanted to try with our friends’ embryos. So we we did that, and I just turned 45. We did the first transfer.
Jamie: How did you make that decision?
Jen: There was a part of me especially who was like, had been, feeling all the time that had gone by and all the ups and downs and the disappointment. There was this part of me that was like, “Just whichever one is available first, like transfer, and transfer as soon as the doctor says Okay, green light. Let’s go. But then the, my husband and the other part of me emotionally was like, it will be so wonderful if we get to have a baby from our friend’s embryos and have this like unique experience where these kids get to know each other and have a special bond, and move forward into I call it like the new frontier of what family can be.
Jamie: Yeah …
Jen: it’s kinda uncharted territory. Granted, other people are doing it too, but it’s, relatively new, and certainly for us, like a wonderful new experience with who knows how that goes or at where, what it evolves into.
My husband was like the steady hand and he was like, babe, I know you’ve, you would transfer an embryo today if you could. But and he kept reminding me when my doctor said also one of the great things about and I think same with the egg donor, but certainly donor embryo is you can have gone through menopause and you can still carry a baby this way. She was like, I will do everything I can to get you pregnant, and we’re no longer worried about y- the clock in your body. It doesn’t matter. You can… If you’ve kicked into perimenopause, it doesn’t matter. You can try to relax, ’cause the clock, it’s just a clock, and it’s like your age is just an age. And she’s “You’re healthy, you’re exuberant, you’re youthful. We can do this. So I, I calmed down and I was like, we wanna go with our friend’s embryos next.” Like- So we did. The first one didn’t take, and it was disappointing, but not like the other ones had been. And I’m sure that’s-
Jamie: ‘Cause you had more, right?
Jen: ‘Cause I have four, right? I have four-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … waiting in the wings. And so that was, it was still sad, but it was like, what a silver lining to really have the silver lining right there. And my doctor was like, I really think it was the embryo. I don’t think it was you. We had really good, lining, and every- everything was where I wanted it. Let’s just fine-tune it. Let’s go again. So
Jamie: I was still- How long did you wait?
Jen: I think it only took about 10 or 12 weeks. It was quick.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: Like just reset, give the body just a little bit of time, and then start the drugs and everything to yeah, to- … to make the most hospitable environment.
Jamie: How old are you now?
Jen: 45.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: So then we go to do the second transfer with the embryo from friends and it took. I got pregnant. It was, like, elation, total elation. I couldn’t believe it. I was like, it’s finally happened. It’s my time. I’m 45. Great. Okay. 40 to 45, that was a long haul, but here we are. And I got to 12 weeks we were rolling into 13 weeks. It was like that first trimester, we’re through it.
It was a baby girl. We got the testing. The early genetic testing actually, also reveals the sex if you wanna know and I did. I said, I’ve waited for five years to even maybe know if I’ll get pregnant or not. I no longer need the mystery of what is the sex. Just tell me. And it was a little girl. I was so excited. And then a week later, at four, I had 13 and a half or so weeks, I had a silent miscarriage.
Jamie: Oh, I’m sorry.
Jen: Thank you. Yeah. It was, I went in for just a, one of my routine appointments, and I just, I had a bad feeling. But I also was like, you have a bad feeling ’cause you’re so worried ’cause it took so long to get pregnant, so of course part of you is like clenching the table and Tell me everything’s okay.
Yeah. And and there’s no, any loss or miscarriage is just total- totally devastating, of course. But I just, there I was in the hallway with all these other pregnant women and in the room, and then they’re doing the Doppler and they can’t, the tech can’t find the heartbeat. Just let me get one of the midwives.
And then one of the midwives came in, and then she couldn’t– She said, “Let me get the doctor. Let me get the doctors.” And I was, of course, like hoping yeah maybe just the positioning is weird. But I knew, especially as like they tried so hard, and it w- it wasn’t happening. And then a doctor came in, and it was this old guy, and he was cranky.
And I think he was like– Probably he knew, too, right? When they’re like, “We’ve both checked,” and he did not wanna be there. He was like, these machines, I don’t– This is the one I don’t like, and the head tech is out for a few hours, but she’ll be back. You should come back this afternoon.
And he just– he couldn’t get out of there fast enough. And I was like, “Oh, I just, I know it. I know it.” But I did. I went back that afternoon, so I had a few hours where I was, like, in limbo, running errands, and it was like-
Jamie: Oh, limbo
Jen: … a really grim day. Yeah, the worst limbo. And I went back, and they confirmed that, yeah, there was no heartbeat. And I called my husband. I was just sobbing. And I should’ve called him and told him to meet me there. I didn’t. I don’t know why. I was emotional and I was still hoping for the best, right? I was still, like-
Jamie: Sure
Jen: … hanging on to this shred of hope that I would go back, and it would be fine. And I just sobbed and sobbed. And he was, like, so sad that he wasn’t there. And, we got– I told our friends. I told them first, besides my husband, before I told my mom or anyone. And they were just so sad, too, ’cause we’d all been so happy, and it was gonna be another little girl. They have a daughter.
So I grieved that, but at the same time I asked my doctor “What’s the timeline?” What ha- like, you tell me how long I have to wait, ’cause I wanna go again as soon as we can.”
Jamie: Did you choose to do a D&C or natural?
Jen: I tried to do, let things pass on their own. Okay. And I’m lucky my best childhood friend is a nurse midwife, and so she’s like, all throughout my journey, was never officially one of my care providers, but I have her on speed dial. And she was like, “Let’s… I would– Let’s try the drugs at home.” So I got the meds. ‘Cause it– We tried natural and nothing was happening for a few days, and emotionally and physically for my body, I just, I wanted to move forward in the process. Yeah. So I took a dose of the drugs, and she was like, “Be ready to be super uncomfortable, and stay home.”
And then nothing happened, and so it was, like, the opposite of what I was expecting. And I had to do another dose of the drugs. And she told me that when you have that much fertility intervention, and they’re trying so hard to get the perfect conditions in your body and your womb, that a lot of people, when they miscarry, the body really has a hard time letting it go because you’ve really– they’ve done so good at getting your body so perfectly ready to go ahead and hold on.
So we did I did pivot and get a D&C because after- Okay … two doses of medicine and nothing was happening.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: That was such a surreal, it’s like you’re in the hospital to have a D&C which is, of course, thank goodness you can have that, and it’s so important that we have access to it. But it was so far away from the goal of having a baby. It felt right. It’s like this is the opposite of what I’m trying to do.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: But it was also like this is the next step. I’m still trying to have a baby and this is a sad- next step. And I had a whole team of women, all the nurses, the doctor, and they were wonderful. And I just remember being like at least I’m, like, being so well cared for, and they were so kind. So I had the D&C, and then the doctor noticed some fibroids and told me to talk to my clinic about it. And so shortly after that, and again, I’m s- I’m 45 still I had to have fibroid surgery.
My doctor was like, I know the last thing you want is another delay and setback.” And I was like, You are correct. Like all of your other patients, right? I’m sure.” It’s oh, we’re talking about a setback, and it’s a surgical one? Ugh. But she said, “I really think it will improve the chances.
Some people say no, and they still get pregnant with these fibroids.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: But I don’t like where it is in there. And I was like you’re the expert. And abs- you think my chances are better if it comes out? Let’s get it, get her out of here.” Like- … h- how fast can we do it? And, So scheduling that was of course, it was like getting close to the holidays and she was like, “Call today,” because they’re really, like they’ve been super busy.
When the scheduling gal, I got a hold… I have to leave a message. She got back to me and she said like I’m booking out about three to four months. And I… Yes, that’s the sound I made on the phone with her. Exactly. I just, my heart lurched, my stomach came up into my throat, and I’m just sitting there like looking at the calendars Next week’s calendar,” “When these are the days I can tell you I’m free.
I remember it was one of the only times I think I really almost just lost it, and I wanted to scream and shout and swear and be like, I need, like I need you to make this happen. And I remember taking a deep breath and thinking she’s not responsible for how busy they are. Like, and again, this is another person’s naughty list I don’t wanna be on.
I’m gonna not get anywhere being a jerk. I like bit my tongue and I calmed down, and I was like… I just tried to be funny about it and real with her. I was like, Not me sitting here with my calendar open to next week hoping you’re gonna just squeak me in. I said, Okay. I was like let me book the soonest one you have, but could you please put my name down, and if anything come, opens up or…
and and she was chu- she kinda chuckled at my like, “I’ve got my, I’m ready next Tuesday. Can we are we a go? What about 5:00 AM next Tuesday?” And she laughed and she said Okay, what’s your schedule like? And I had a pretty flexible working part-time, and my work was like really supportive of like my journey, so I was like, I, if you have something open up, like I will be there.
She said, “Let me call you back.” And I don’t know what she did or if I think, like to think I charmed her. I don’t know, but she called back and said, “All right. I can get you in next week.” Just one day and one time. And I remember thinking immediately you were almost lost your mind on this woman and threw a tantrum, which would’ve been not fair to her.
It would’ve been understandable for anyone who’s been through a long stressful- … fertility journey. We’ve all f- probably screamed and bit pillows and wanted to punch a wall and sworn our heads off, discreetly and privately mostly. At least that’s how I tried to do it. And I was like, if I had done that, my surgery would’ve been four months from now.
Jamie: Yeah. And she came through.
Jen: Yeah. She I can’t remember her name. I wish I could because my undying thanks and appreciation to that woman. So the fibroid surgery w- was able to be taken care of very quickly, and my doctor said, I wanna give you a month or two post D&C and just emotionally and for your body, let me take a look and I was like, “Again, I defer to your expertise, even though there’s a part of me that’s “Are you sure we can’t just go next month? Like I… But I was like, Okay. Two to three months, that’s not that long.” So Yeah. Now I’m about 45 and a half or so, so we’re kinda moving through the 40- my 45th year, and we have that one, one more embryo from friends.
And we didn’t know the sex of any of their embryos, and their embryos had not been tested for anything.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: Whereas the two we had from the donor agency were both boys, and they had been tested.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: So that also kinda weighed on us when we were deliberating. It was like, partly you kinda wanna go with the tested embryo-
Just in terms of it’s rules out a lot of potential problems. But my husband and I both, especially by now, we’ve had two with our friends we, that we transferred. We just had this bond with them, and we were getting together regularly, like once a month or so for dinner or a lunch in the park with their daughter and them, and hanging out and kinda just talking about the whole process and getting to know each other much more closely than we had been just as acquaintances.
And they’re just the loveliest people, and we have so many things in common. And-
…
Jen: And it was just like, I- we wanna do their last one, and we really- Yeah … hope it’s the one.
Jamie: Yeah. I’m just curious, how old are they?
Jen: They were in their mid-30s at this point.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: So they, when she did her IVF, I believe she was, like, 33, 34.
So that was another thing that the donor embryos from the agency, the mom had been a little bit younger than that. And my doctor was like, that’s another plus for that because the younger, quote unquote, more likely the better. But she said, But 33, 34, I’m not worried. And you have this connection with them, so I absolutely support trying with theirs.”
Again, and this will be that last one. Hopefully it works. If it doesn’t, then we have these other two which we know are of a really high quality we can move on to. So also about this time between my pregnancy loss and before the next transfer, I visited my girlfriend Maya, who’s the sister of our donor friends in Mexico City where she and her family live.
She’s from the States, but she lives there. While I was visiting her, she said, I know a bruja,” a Mexican medicine woman, healer, or bruja I think literally translates to witch. And she has helped a lot of my friends clear their houses of bad energy and with emotional problems, and she’s kinda does psychic stuff and herbal stuff and prepare you to have a baby, and she said, Do you want me to contact her and see if she’d come over to our house and work with you?
And I was like, “Oh my gosh, text her right now.” Yes. Yeah, yes, of course. You’re
Jamie: just “Bring it. Anything.”
Jen: Yeah, a- absolutely. I am ready. The bruja comes with her daughter, who’s about 12, and her daughter is like her pr- apprentice, and she’s teaching her, and she had learned from her mother, the grandmother.
And her daughter’s also her translator. So my friend’s Spanish was pretty good, but not necessarily all the very specific medical terms and tarot card terms. So we had Google Translate out. I don’t speak Spanish. I learned French in high school, so I was of no help. And the daughter was also translating English and Spanish.
She did all these cool… Like she, I- laid me down and rubbed herbs and oil all over my body, took chicken eggs and said blessings and put the chicken eggs on my belly and rubbed them around, just in the shell, like-
Jamie: Okay …
Jen: just with blessings and herbs, pulled tarot cards, and did all kinds of incantations and said, If anyone’s putting negative energy on you, I’m sending it away. If anyone’s wished you ill or, and I’m wishing only energy from your friends and family and the universe that wishes you to have this baby. And she, my friend said that, She wants you to know s- give it one year and you’ll be a mom. Like one year from now, you’ll, you will be a mom.
And I was just like still so sad about the loss and I was just like, Please universe, let it be true. Let it be real. And she sent me home with candles and herbs she’d blessed, and I brought them home and I, said that, When you go home, like light these candles, say this like prayer.”
I love reiki energy work and sound healing and yoga sound baths. People get very skeptical of those things or even how much acupuncture can help, but I’m always really open to it because it’s so relax- I find it so relaxing and it’s like even if it’s only calming my nervous system-
Jamie: Exactly
Jen: that for anyone who’s trying to get pregnant, who’s ever tried to get pregnant, you know anything that calms you down or soothes you, like massage, right? It’s no harm can come from it. A- and it may very well help even if it only helps in that it calmed me down. Yeah. But I’m also like, maybe she is really in tune with the universe and, and-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: she confidently said a year from now, and so this is September, a year from now you’ll be a mom.
Jamie: And so- And you’re never gonna forget that either.
Jen: No. And my friend was like, Whoa. Like I, I so hope it’s true. And I was like, Oh, me too. We were both like, “Okay, we’re gonna see.” And so I’m realizing so I had just turned 46.
Like I saw the bruja in Mexico City like a few weeks after turning 46. And my doctor was like, “Okay, right around the holidays we can do your next transfer. So or I can do it right like January, it was like January 3rd or 4th. We’ll just get through Christmas week, have a nice Christmas as best you can and then we’ll transfer, right?
And I, I did the math even before the transfer and I was like, that would mean a September baby, like- Like right around about a year from my BrewHa experience. So I was just thinking, Oh, come on. So I did not… We went in for the fifth transfer early one morning. We’re in the clinic, in the room.
There’s a sliding door. I don’t know if all clinics do it this way, but there’s a sliding door on the inside of the room where an embryologist will slide it open and come out and give you the report.
Jamie: Oh.
Jen: Attached to the thaw room and where all that magic happens, science and magic. And it was just taking longer.
And we’ve done this our fifth one, so I’m like keenly aware- I know … about how long it takes. And so it’s taking longer and longer, and my husband and I are like, Oh, no. Oh, no. What if they come in and say it didn’t thaw properly? Because we have two more, but this is the last one from our friends. Yeah. And this is the one we really want to be our baby.
And also, I’m exhausted at this point, right? I’m like- Yeah … oh my gosh, it’s so hard to keep doing these procedures, and your hopes and your body is like, ugh, the fatigue. We’re holding hands, very sweaty hands. I’m sweating profusely. I think he was too, but we’re just like, You know what? Let’s just sit here calmly, hold hands.” And there’s kinda, instrumental music playing, like elevator music really, doctor’s office music. And I’m not paying attention to it and then I notice wait, this sounds familiar. And I don’t know if you ever watched the show Lost.
Jamie: I didn’t.
Jen: … Back in the day, and it’s about people stranded on an island. And this composer, I think Michael Giacchino, composed all this beautiful music for it. And there’s a song, and the name of the song, it’s all instrumental, but the song is called Life or Death, Life and Death. And in the show it plays every time a baby is born, someone’s ill or dying, or a- anything joyful or sad, like the biggest of life’s moments.
And my brothers and I love that show. I made my husband watch it during COVID as a rewatch, and he was like, I don’t know. But I was like crying and I remember this part. And it’s just a show I watched at a young enough age that it just really impacted me. And the music’s playing in the room and I’m telling him, and I’m like, “I feel like that’s a good sign.”
It’s and the door opens right as the music’s swelling, and the embryologist comes out and says “The embryo is perfect. It thawed beautifully.”
Jamie: Oh.
Jen: And I just I relaxed so much in that moment. I was just like I know there’s no guarantees, but like things are really feeling fortuitous.
And they do the transfer. It goes super smoothly. Sometimes in the past, they had to try a few times, and it’s put the tube in and out, the little catheter. And it goes right in. They’re like, “Perfect placement. This is great.” We go home.
It’s a two-week wait, and I have a quer- I did not test on my own the first two transfers, and then a couple girlfriends were like, What do you mean? I started testing like… I They’re like, Doesn’t everyone totally disregard that m- memo from the doctor and start testing on day six? And then I was like, Oh, wait, everyone’s doing that? So I totally did it. I did it too early and got a negative, and then I was like, “Ugh, it didn’t work.” And my girlfriend was like,
No, test every day. Now that you’ve opened Pandora’s box, you gotta test every day. This is not over. That doesn’t mean we, that doesn’t tell us anything. And I’m, like, crying. I know, and I’m pretty sure it tells us something, blah. But I keep testing, and a few days later there’s the faintest line. And I test the next day and the line’s a little darker, and the next a little darker, and then it’s the day to go in to the clinic and check.
My fertility nurse, had been with me at this point for years, and we were, like, had totally bonded and she called me and she was like, “I’m calling with really great news, Jen.” She was like, “You’re pregnant.” And I just let joyful screams and just, and telling everyone. I was like, Molly, we did it. We did it. And she laughed. She’s I didn’t do it. But “You and the doctors.” I’m like, “You have been a part of you have been in the trenches with me, and so kind and, so then I was pregnant and very nervous, Yeah … after a, previous loss, as I know many people you’ve talked to and people who’ve been through that can attest to.
It’s very hard to relax into a pregnancy-
Jamie: After a loss, yeah.
Jen: Yeah. So I was happy with a very, asterisked fingers and toes crossed and tried to just keep up the yoga, acupuncture, calming things.
Jamie: What was it like getting through the 13th week?
Jen: Oh, man. The feeling as it crept right up on that date where I had lost the previous baby, oh, man, that… that’s the fear and the cramping of the heart, and even my, just my body felt so tense, and was just holding my breath, and then trying to not clench and not hold my breath. Which is very, also very counterproductive to the mission at hand, but, very easy to say, very hard to do.
But when I got past it and they were like, “Everything’s looking great,” it was such a sigh of relief. And then especially hitting 20 weeks and doing the anatomy scan was like, again, just the weight off the shoulders was so immense. ‘Cause I was just bracing for you’re still pregnant, but, there’s a problem with his organs.”
Or, yeah, I was just really just had this anxiety that came on that was, like scary and frustrating, and I knew it was not good for me and not good for the pregnancy, but was really hard to keep at bay, I think, after a loss. Certainly for me. And so I, I think in the second trimester and the third they let…
The nurses were like, “You can come in whenever you want. Just call if you wanna come have a Doppler check, and we’ll just check so you can hear the heartbeat.” “And that will help keep you calm.” And I said I’m gonna take you up on that. I hope you mean it.” Yeah. And I was there about once a week through my second and third trimester.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: A, a little bit less towards the end when I could feel him and it, my belly was so big. But especially while I wasn’t really showing and my placenta was in the front, so the movement was harder to feel. I just, I wanted to be in there every day getting that heartbeat confirmed.
Jamie: That confirmation is that heartbeat is the best sound in the world.
Jen: Every time, right? Yeah. It’s “I was here last week. It’s just as magical this time.” Exactly. “It will be just as magical next Friday, ladies. I’ll see you in a week. Okay.”
Jamie: Exactly.
Jen: And and I thought we might get an insurance bill that was obscene, I thought, and I was like, “I’m not gonna worry about that till that bill comes.” And then it was all covered, mercifully. But I was like, “You know what? Whatever that bill is, we will figure it out.” ‘Cause- Yeah … the peace of mind that each of those checks gave me, oh.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: Yeah. Same. You, yeah, oh my goodness.
Jamie: Yeah. Tell us, you didn’t know his sex. Tell us about finding out.
Jen: Yes. So previously had been pregnant with a little girl, and I think in my mind I was, of course, kinda “It would be nice to get pregnant with a girl again.” I had just already been in that mind frame. I’d been thrift shopping for little girl clothes. I only have brothers, so I was like, “Oh, perfect, I’ll have a daughter.” But ultimately, also, there was another part of me that’s “I want a healthy baby.”
I would love a healthy baby. Am I even gonna get a baby?” Beggars aren’t choosers. I will happily take a girl or boy, whatever. And I couldn’t wait for the surprise, so I did… I actually found it on the, when the results came in for the early genetic testing. I was combing through the results in my chart, and like before the doctor even called, and I found whichever line it is, and it’s this text revealed these chromosomes to rule out something.
But it, so it was like chromosomes XY consistent with male. And I like read that and was just like, “Oh, we’re having a boy.” So it was just this really quiet moment of just me and the computer, and I had, I did… h- in all honesty it was like, “Oh, okay. It’s not a girl.” I had to shift my mindset.
But I had an energy worker who did Reiki on me, because I’d done my embryo transfer but I didn’t yet know, and she was like, “I think this one is it. I think this baby’s taking.” She’s “And while I was working on you I c- I had a vision of you in a canoe with your baby.
It was you and him, and Canadian geese were flying overhead, and you were on this lake, and it was perfectly calm.” I remember when she said that I was like, “She said him.” And I didn’t say anything to her, but I noted it, and I was like, Okay, so she’s pretty in tune. She’s a pretty in tune gal, so like maybe it’s a boy. And then it was. And I was pregnant even though it had been too soon to know for sure. So I was not shocked when it was a boy. And also I lost, one of my brothers died when I was quite young, when I was 12 and he was 9, and my husband had lost a son too. My brother died at age 9 and my husband’s son died at age 12, both in tragic accidents.
So the more I thought-
Jamie: So sorry.
Jen: Oh, yeah. Thank you. But it felt oh, the universe is giving us a little boy. My husband has three daughters already whom, and my stepdaughters whom I love. Even our dog’s a girl. And I thought, oh, the universe is this family n- could use a boy and more male energy.
And my husband was like, “A healthy baby. I just want a healthy baby.” But he was so happy it was gonna be a little boy. I think he even said I didn’t even wanna like hope for another son. It felt weird with having had lost one, and he didn’t want anyone to think… They specifically adopted our youngest daughter from China, because at that time China was when they were just like girls.
We’ll give her all these-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … we take these girls, but you can’t have any of the boys. And that had been so much closer to the loss of his son, and he said to his wife at the time, “I don’t want anyone to think I’ll make it look like I’m trying to replace a son that I lost. If we adopt, I wanna go through China and get a girl.”
Which has always like stuck with me that he had that emotionality about that. And so then when it was like the universe is giving us a boy, it just felt like that’s just right. That’s-
Jamie: Exactly how it’s supposed to happen.
Jen: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. That’s sweet. I love that. Oh, gosh. Tell us what… I’m, we’re switching gears.
I’m sorry.
Jen: Okay. No, great.
Jamie: Was there any products or anything that helped you through pregnancy or even trying to conceive?
Jen: Yeah. So once I was pregnant, I was very nauseous, and I definitely did where they have you do Unisom and vitamin B6 as a combination to-
Jamie: Okay …
Jen: cut down on nausea, and it helped immensely.
I really kept up with prenatal massage, prenatal yoga. So again, sticking to those kind of alternative practices and the energetic work and stuff. I think that was so helpful. That’s a really good prompt. I’m, like, trying to think. In terms of just specific products though, I don’t think there was…
I definitely, later in the pregnancy, I did the magnesium lotion. I don’t know if you did that for leg cramps and to help me sleep and not have cramps in the night.
Jamie: I take magnesium, but there’s different kinds.
Jen: I forget which one it was, but my massage therapist was like, “This is the one that’s best for that kind of muscle-” “tightness and for just helping with sleep.” And I was like, “Great. I’ll take two bottles.” I was, like, in… so I definitely really tried to attend to anything in my body if there was any supplement or cream like that could could help. ‘Cause I just, I started to get so uncomfortable and- to wake up in the night, and you’re just thinking, There’s a baby on the way. We need to be as rested as possible.
Jamie: When y- you were preparing for birth, how did you prepare? Your house, and did you take any classes?
Jen: Oh my goodness, yes. So I knew I wasn’t gonna deliver my baby at the local birth center that’s like, where you’re just offsite from a hospital, but I took all of their classes.
It was like the Body Be Ready method, where you learn stretches and things to do leading up to birth and really talk about, like, how to be embodied and prepared, and do all these hip exercises and stretches, and that was great. And then my husband and I took their series of just preparing to be parents and a baby.
And then they had a class called the fourth trimester class, which is those first three months. I’m so glad I took that class ’cause I still struggled so much. But they… That teacher really did talk about it can be really wild. You get this baby home, and a lot of people are like, Hooray, you did it.
Baby shower. You had the baby. Here’s a gift, and here’s one meal, and then ghost town, right? Then it’s like- … and actually, most people will really need all that help and support in that first, that fourth trimester, those first few months, even up to six months. And so that class was really cool, and I read tons of books and tons of books on natural birth.
I remember thinking later oh, maybe I should’ve somehow tried to learn more about what it was gonna be like once he was born. But again, I think that’s just hard to learn until you’re doing it.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: But we set up a nursery, and our bedroom is really big and has an office nook where my husband’s office used to be, and now that’s the nursery. That’s still where Jason is. And so I did get into that nesting mode later in the pregnancy, and a bunch of friends gave me hand-me-down clothes, and I got them all washed and organized, and that part was really fun. The picking out art to hang on the wall and I really, liked that part a lot.
Jamie: Now, was it surreal to you to be like, “Am I really putting a baby in this outfit?” What was going through your mind whenever you were doing that?
Jen: It’s so weird, right? You’re like, “I’m pregnant. I know I’m pregnant, and statistically, hopefully nothing’s gonna go wrong, and this baby, is gonna be joining us.” But it was so surreal, ’cause it’s are they really? Is this, yeah, this cute little onesie with elephants on it. Oh my gosh, a month from now am I really gonna be holding my baby in this outfit? It was, like, mind-blowing, right? It’s I-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … I know that’s probably what’s gonna happen, but I also can’t believe it, and I- I kinda don’t want… It’s like I don’t wanna count my chickens until they hatch, quite literally. So it was a weird mix, and I definitely waited towards until the third trimester for that the clothes and the nursery setup piece, ’cause I just thought I wanna be pretty close to the finish line.
And I’ve, I have friends who actually waited till the baby was born after having a loss.
Jamie: Oh.
Jen: Because they were just like, “I needed that baby to be, like, in my arms and real, and then we could set up the nursery,” which I totally can appreciate and understand, and I’m glad I didn’t have that feeling that I had to do that. Because that would’ve also been… I was such a mess postpartum, if we’d had to build the crib and… I would’ve been like, “Oh, my Go- No, we should…” So we’re, I’m glad we did that ahead of time but pretty close to my due date.
Jamie: That’s awesome. We haven’t talked about your doctor at all. Did you talk about what you wanted to do how you found a doctor? Or did you just use the one that you always used?
Jen: So I stayed with my fertility doctor through about almost the the first 10 weeks. And then they call it graduation. I graduated from the fertility clinic.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And I really wanted to work with a midwife or a team of midwives. I think in part ’cause my best friend has been a midwife since we were in our 20s, and I knew I just did not want some guy doctor, some dude to be, like, in charge of this. In Tacoma where we live, one of the hospitals has a full practice of midwives. So there’s a team of midwives and then a team of OBs. And they have a birth center, and then the hospital’s attached. So i- if things go sideways or you need more care, they can take care of you and baby.
They kinda have the full range. So I went with that because I thought we can at least start with midwife care and but if anything goes wrong for me or the baby, we’re right at a hospital with all the state-of-the-art stuff. My husband was definitely like, “You’re not thinking about home birth or going to the hippie birth clinic, are you?”
And I said if I was younger, that’s absolutely what I would be doing and thinking about. But, I’m 46. I’m finally pregnant. This one is seemingly sticking and we’re, approaching birth. It felt like a really good kinda combination of what I would dream of doing if I were younger and lower risk.
They have about 17 midwives in the practice, so I just would see someone different each of my appointments in the hopes- … that some of them would be at the birth. And some of them were, and then I was in labor for a very long time, so I got to meet some new midwives as well. But it was a great practice, and I feel like they were really, I did not constantly get told what an old mom I was and how geriatric I was, which I’ve definitely-
Jamie: That’s nice
Jen: … talked to a lot of women in their 40s who feel like, and even in their mid and upper 30s, who really just get treated like you’re so old. It’s I think I’m painfully aware of my age already, thank you.
Like…
Jamie: I know.
Jen: Yeah. I was very happy with the midwife practice. They let me go past my due date, but only for three days past. And then they induced.
What
Jamie: was, what was the plan? Was the plan an induction?
Jen: They initially were like, We’ll probably wanna induce you a week or two early, and I really advocated for myself and said, you know- what are the risks of if we at least get to my due date and see? And and they talked about it and they were like, “Yeah, like we can let you do that, and then the most past we’re gonna go is three days.
And if you don’t go into labor by three days after your due date, we will induce. And I had been talking to my best friend who’s a midwife all along and she was like, I really… That’s a very reasonable, compromise. And we were really hoping I’d go into labor and not have to be induced, right? Let nature run its course. But sadly, that didn’t happen, and we were supposed to go in at 1:00 PM on a Friday, but they said, We’re gonna call you if we’re full and push you back. So they said we’ll call you as soon as we have a bed.” And we were like like till 9:00 PM, and then we’ll hear from you in the morning, or will you call us in the night?”
And they said, “We’ll call you at any time, like if there’s a bed.” And so we got woken up at 2:00 AM. I don’t think either of us were all that deep in sleep, but we went in at 2:00 AM. I got induced And then nothing happened. It was like, okay. And the whole next day went by. My best friend arrived, our doula arrived. Saturday was just just waiting for things to happen and increasing meds.
And on Sunday finally contractions and things started happening. And they had to break my water though, and it didn’t fully break. And so then they were trying to go back in and break it more, and they wanted to put a monitor on the baby’s head internally ’cause he just was having a little bit of stress.
That was so painful, those two things in conjunction. And one midwife, she was like, “I can’t get it. I’m gonna go get another midwife who can do this better.” And I was like, “Someone hand me a bag. I’m gonna throw up.” Like
Jamie: Oh, gosh.
Jen: Which I, and I did. I was like hurry a bag now.
And so I-
Jamie: Because it was so painful …
Jen: it was so painful. So I hadn’t had an epidural. I was, at this point, going natural. And then, my husband’s honey you can get that… just, I’m just saying if you… no one’s gonna fault you if you change your mind and say, ‘I want an epidural.'”
And I just was really like, “I wanna do this.” And then I eventually was like, “Okay.” And they’re like, “You’re still only four to five centimeters.” Oh. And it’s two days later, and I was like, “I’m so tired. Give me the epidural.” Actually-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … I wave my white flag. “Give it to me.”
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And they came in to do it and said, “It might take 20 minutes to kick in, so you might have a few more contractions.” And I remember being like, “What?” “No, I gave in. I said you could do it.” And-
Jamie: Yeah …
Jen: now I want the pain to immediately stop. And it did, actually. It worked right away. And the pain went away.
Jamie: But- It’s so deflating whenever you hear that you are not far along.
Jen: Oh, it’s “Oh.”
Jamie: It makes things worse.
Jen: You’re kidding me. It’s been hours since you checked.” And they’re like, “Yeah, and so but then I relaxed so much from that, that then a couple hours later they’re like, “Actually you are. You’re at… You’re there. Can you push?” And I couldn’t feel anything. The epidural worked so well, I was like, “Okay, my brain is saying push. Can you see anything down there that looks like pushing?”
And I’ll never… This o- awesome older midwife was the one on shift. They changed every 12 hours, so I had a handful through the process. She said pushing is a skill.” That skill is greatly diminished when you can’t feel what’s going on down there. And I said, “Yeah, I suspect nothing’s happening, but I promise you, I’m like, ‘Eh.’ I’m like, my brain’s ‘Eh, push.'” And she was like, I know a C-section is not what you wanted, but the OR is free right now.
You’ve been at this a long time. You’ve got a baby coming. And I really was like, “Oh no, I’m so exhausted. Like, how am I gonna take care of the baby? I, I’ve been awake for 48 hours essentially, maybe a little nap here and there, and it’s 10:30 PM. It’s nighttime again.”
And his distressed heart rate, which was off and on, it kicked back up and the midwife, she was great. She’s “I’m calling it.” We’re gonna, we’re gonna do it. And I really, like I realized I really just needed someone else to make the decision.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: If like someone had told me that in advance, that you’re gonna get to a place where you want someone to tell you what’s gonna happen, I’d be like, “No, I wouldn’t. I’m in charge, and it’s my birth plan and birth preferences.” But I was just like, if I have to have a C-section, fine, but I want it to be like, and then the medical team said I have to do this, and then we did it.
And so I immediately got rolled off for the C-section, and I don’t know if that… you’ve had that e- that experience of having a C-section. So it’s awake surgery, right? It’s one of the only surgeries you do awake, and they were like, “It’s gonna feel really weird. It’s not gonna be painful because we’ve drugged you up so much, but you’re gonna feel tugging when we pull the baby out, and it’s gonna feel very strange.”
I was like, “That… Yeah, that sounds like it’s gonna feel very strange.” And I was super doped up. It was all women, except the anesthesiologist was a guy, and my doula and Kyle were getting all their gear on, so they weren’t in the OR yet. And I was like, “My doula has my playlist of music.” And the anesthesiologist was like, “I’ve got something we can listen to in the meantime.”
And he put it in, and it was like early 2000s white guy alternative rock. And I remember lying on the table being like, Should I just say kill that? Like that, this can definitely not be playing while I have my baby. And my doula came in a minute later, and I… she just walked across the room, and she’s “That’s not gonna work.” And she unplugged it and plugged in my phone and put on my playlist. And I was so relieved, like folky singer-songwriter, all these women singers. It was just like the vibe that I wanted.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And five minutes, man, they cut you open quick. That baby was out. They’re like, “That part’ll take about five minutes, and then it’ll take us an hour to sew you up.”
So they got him out- An hour? Or 45 a- minutes to an hour. Yeah.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: They’re like, “That part takes a long time.” But he was out in five minutes, and when I heard him cry, I was like, “He’s gonna come out and they’re gonna say he’s not alive.” I just had that, again, that anxiety flared up. I’m like, “Or he’s gonna be blind. I don’t know.” I was like, “This is crazy, Mama.” I’m like, “He’s gonna be blind,” and “I… That’s great. I can have a blind son. I’ll do it. I’ll do it, but please, universe, like I’d really rather, not have a big hardship for him and also for me. Ugh.” And I’m just like on the table bargaining with the universe and spirits and drugged up to oblivion, but awake.
And he cried, and I just was like, “Oh, my gosh.” And I’m like yelling at Kyle “Skin to skin. You have to do it.” “I can’t do it.” They’re like… I could feel them tugging again, sewing me up. And I went into like on TV shows, cop shows, when they have people coming down from drug addiction and they’re shaking.
I went into that. Like, where you’re in shock. It was like my body was in shock and I did have all kinds of drugs pulsing through me. And they’d cut through whatever it is, seven major muscle layers, and yanked my baby out. And I was like, “If you hand him to me, I’ll drop him off the ta-…
like I was tremoring and shivering, and I’ve never experienced that- in my body before, and it was so wild. And I was, like, for 45 minutes on that table and doing that, and just hearing them, husband cooing to the baby, and they’re like, checking things. They’re like, Such and such good, and such clear.
And each thing they checked and was okay, my body just was like, like my heart was like, Okay, I can breathe. He’s here and he’s okay, and Kyle’s got him. And ’cause like I have to lie here and shake like a fish flopping on the dock. Oh my gosh, what’s happening? And I remember the doctor, she was like, I have to put some medicine up your butt.
I was like, “What?” And I, now I don’t remember what the medicine was, and I should ask my friend who’s a midwife ’cause I’m sure she does. And I remember I was like, “Doctor,” you’re not even gonna take me to dinner and you’re already getting to butt stuff?” And then all the nurses laughing, and I just was like, “I can’t…”
“Is this real? Is my baby real?” And then they got me all stitched up, and they wheel us back to the room, and there’s a huge bandage down in my crotch area. And the nurse starts laughing, and she was like, “Oh my gosh, the doctor wrote a message on the bandage.” Like I’ve never– she’s never done that before.
And she had written, and I have a photo of it I hope. I think I sent it to you. And it says, “Happy birthday, Jason.” She wrote it on my… And I was like we kinda had some witty banter going,” and I think maybe that’s why she did it. And then he was here. Jason was born.
He became part of our family, and I was exhausted, and I’m guessing you remember that, right? But you’re in the hospital and they’re like, “Here’s your baby, and try to nurse them.” And I was just like, “Oh my gosh,” “am I prepared for this?” “How do I take care of him?” We were there for two days. Everything checked out with him wonderfully, mercifully. And, Then we got to go home after a couple days there.
Jamie: Yeah. What was it like taking him home?
Jen: It was also felt surreal. It’s like they check the car seat and, in your car, and then they’re like, “It’s in correctly. Okay, bye.”
And “Go raise this baby.” And I thought, I’m in my 40s too what if a young parent, like if you’re in your 20- like, oh my gosh, how much even more weird would I have felt? I’m not a grownup enough to do this. I felt so nervous, and I was so tired and but also excited we’re bringing our baby home.
And my best friend stayed with us for a couple nights, which was so great. She’s a nurse midwife, she’s a mom, and she just was cooking food, and I was just like, how do we do everything with a baby? Like, how do we make sure there are groceries? And we had a lactation consultant come over in those first couple days, and I had a little bit of trouble with nursing, but I’ve since heard stories from people where it’s really hard.
So it took us a couple days and they had to really coach me, but we got it. But I did go into postpartum I call it postpartum psychosis. I could not sleep. I barely slept for the first two and a half, three months, and the more I couldn’t sleep the more I couldn’t sleep and got anxiety.
So that was really rough, and I’m, like, not trying to have any more babies, so I’m really thankful. I was like, You’re never gonna have to go through this again. “You just have to figure this out.”
Jamie: Do you think you couldn’t sleep because of the hormones or because you were taking care of Jason?
Jen: I think it was, like, partly that hormonal shift.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: I think once anxiety started spinning a little bit, it was like a runaway snowball down a hill. I’ve talked to a couple practitioners and people in the fertility world that say sometimes the longer and, and/or harder of a journey you’ve had, that people who really have a lot of ups and downs on their fertility struggle, that it can make postpartum sometimes more of triggering effect of you were working so hard on this project and you were just climbing each mountain and then another mountain peak to get to your goal.
And you were just push push, and then all of a sudden you’ve done it. And, but also the baby’s here, and you have to take care of them, and your body and the hormones and the drugs if you’re coming off of drugs. Like, all that just can really, jumpstart anxiety, depression.
So I got on a nursing-safe anxiety med, which there are not very many, so I like had to work with my midwives and my doctor. I was like, I need something, but I need it to be safe for the baby. But I have to calm down these thoughts, and I have to be able to sleep, or I won’t be able to take care of him, and I was so paranoid that…
And when Kyle would be asleep and the baby would be asleep, I’d be lying in bed like, You have to sleep, and I just, I wouldn’t. But once I got on a combination of liquid melatonin at night and the anti-anxiety and a low dose of Zoloft sleep came back and at that, that leveled off by about four or five months.
But it made for a very rough start and I don’t know about you, but also this that feeling so many people who go through a big, long fertility journey or a hard one “Oh, I’m supposed to be so thankful that I had a baby.” I’m af-ashamed or afraid to say “I’m actually really struggling, and I’m overwhelmed,” and “I don’t… can I do this?” But h-how can you even think that after, you had to work that hard? So there was that kind of guilt and feelings of “Oh, I have to be joyous every minute of being a mom-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … now that I finally got it. But, I am overjoyed about being his mom and that he’s here, and also I’m really struggling and having a hard time. Yeah. So yeah. I found postpartum very overwhelming and I had– I have a therapist who I saw through most of my fertility journey. She’s still my therapist. And so that was also really helpful, of course, ’cause I was just like, “I don’t feel like myself. I’m not– I don’t know what to do. And it has, of course, gotten so much better.
My son Jason is 16 and a half months now, and I’m so thankful to be out of those postpartum woods. And I try to be so available to any friend having a baby or if anyone’s “My cousin’s having a hard time with postpartum,” I’m like, “Give them my number.” If they’re open to it, I I’m so happy to talk to them and just share what worked for me or, my stepdaughter wonderfully did not have a lot of postpartum symptoms, and I was so relieved for her because it was something that I just had such a hard time with and now have fear for everyone I know who’s pregnant that if they have a hard time, like, how can I help support you through that?
Because I needed a bigger village in that, those first months than we had close by. A lot of our people are just further away and that was really hard.
Jamie: Physically, how was your recovery from your C-section?
Jen: I felt like I’d been hit by a truck. I was like hobbling around like an old lady. I was like bent in half and taking all these drugs and pain meds, and I just felt Oh, no, This is terrible. But when I went for the check, like the checkup with the midwives, they were like, “Oh my gosh,” your scar is like healing so beautifully and you’re actually like, I’m surprised.”
You’re like… They were… And she was like, “Don’t take this the wrong way, but especially for your age and the fact that you haven’t been sleeping, like I’m shocked that you’re in this good a shape coming out of it. So I was like, Oh, okay. Great. And I have nothing, I’ve– It’s the only time I’ve given birth. I have nothing to compare it to.
Jamie: Sure.
Jen: So that was also like, it helped me so much being told that, I think really made me feel like, all right, like your body is doing this. So I think I definitely, it was like emotional and mental was way harder for me than the physical part.
The change of hormones in your body, the change in your life, becoming a parent, becoming a mom. It’s like this massive shift and change and I was like, “Oh, I just, I guess I wasn’t ready.” But then I was, it’s also how would you be ready before you do it?
Jamie: Yeah …
Jen: you could read every book. You could listen to for- You know, you do hear so many people’s accounts and it’s like illuminating, but it doesn’t make you literally ready in your body to hear other people’s experiences. So I was trying to be like, “Okay, you have to be gentle on yourself. Of course, you didn’t know what this would be like.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, same. Now, going back to your breastfeeding journey, how did that continue?
Jen: It was like up and down. We would do really well, and then he’d have a, I called it favorite boob. He would have a favorite boob and not want the other one, and I was pumping a lot.
I hated pumping. I don’t know what you thought about pumping, but I was like-
Jamie: It’s terrible.
Jen: It’s terrible, and I didn’t e- go right back to a full-time job or anything, so I did not have to pump nearly as much as a lot of women do, and I was, like, so thankful for that. And also, anyone I know who’s pumping with a full-time job, I’m just like, “Ugh, I have so much empathy, and I’m sending you, like, all these well wishes that your boobs aren’t too tortured.”
But we got the rhythm. I pumped just enough so that my husband could have some milk in the on hand for night feeds or if I had to go do some appointments and things. And he’s 16 months now. He still nurses on on demand to supplement food, and I don’t… I just am like, I’m just letting him lead the way.
Like, when he starts to wean, I think we’ll- I’ll just follow his lead. And I don’t pump anymore. I don’t have to pump anymore. My husband just gives him bottles with whole milk when it’s his mornings to get up with him, and saying goodbye to that pump was one of the most joyful steps in my motherhood journey so far.
That was a great day. I texted several friends Guess who I said goodbye to today?
Jamie: Oh, amazing.
Jen: And I’m thrilled to never see them again.” Yes. It was like, ugh, new lease on life. And yeah, and I had great lactation consultants. We have a really great practice in our neighborhood close to us, and they came to the house initially, and then we went there.
I definitely in the early months, too, got some sores on my nipples and they had special cr- honey creams and natural remedies and I had One boob in particular just was like, had an open kinda sore on it, and they were like, You just have to keep nursing him and work on it healing.
“Put the cream on when you’re not nursing.” And I was like, I think this is never going away at one point- … ’cause so many months went by. I was like, I think you just know. Like, how is it gonna go away? He keeps nursing,” and eventually it did, and that was another joyful moment. I was like, oh my gosh, it finally healed up.
I got one case of mastitis a few months in too, and that was rough. I did not enjoy that, but they put me on antibiotics. It went away, hasn’t come back. I hope it doesn’t.
Jamie: Yeah …
Jen: I think overall we were pretty fortunate we were able to work out the kinks and the issues, and he’s been a nursing boy this whole time.
Jamie: Good. Is there anything else you wanna go over, your pregnancy or your birth or anything?
Jen: I think we covered a lot of the pregnancy and birth. And I already touched on I- I’m just so glad I did so much self-care and just encourage anyone I talk to who’s pregnant to however much acupuncture, massage, or anything like that, is comforting and soothing.
I know those things aren’t for everybody, but if there are soothing things that you like and can just be kind to yourself while you’re pregnant, like I’m really glad I was focusing on that. ‘Cause all that’s way harder to do once you have a baby.
Jamie: Yeah, definitely.
Jen: That goes away at least for a while.
Jamie: Yeah. You still have those two embryos. What are your plans with those?
Jen: Oh, The embryo agency coordinator, I had to come clean. So I didn’t tell her I got embryos- … from friends, and I was like, even Google doesn’t know, like you can’t just say, “What’s the etiquette when you get embryos from one place?” And like, when do you… ‘Cause I thought if they don’t work, I can just never tell her. I don’t need to tell her I was, like, two-timing her and dating someone else- … with embryos. And it was like again this whole uncharted territory, right? Of what is even appropriate or necessary?
But so once I was very pregnant, I told her. I said, I wanna let you know some friends reached out to us, offered us embryos,” and I didn’t even know, first if it would all work out or but she was thrilled. I was so glad. I just thought maybe she’d feel- Aw … have, feel weird or like I did.
Like I cheated on her. And then the more I thought about it, and like some people were like did you get any on the black market? My friend went down to, such and such country and bought them on the… I was like, No I did not know that was a thing. And I did not do that, but now that you talk about it I’m actually not surprised.”
And then I was like, I bet she has all kinds of clients that are, if they have the money, are getting embryos from a, ‘Cause I was thrilled once I had two sources of embryos. I mean-
Jamie: Yeah …
Jen: and if we had a lot more money and there had been other avenues to go down, I probably would’ve. My husband was like, “You don’t wanna have any more, do you?”
‘Cause, he has– we have kids ranging from, a baby still in their mid-30s and now a grandbaby. I turned 47 a month before Jason was born. And I love that so many women even into their 50s now are having babies. I think that’s fantastic. But I had a seven-year journey from starting trying to having my baby, and I was like, “I’m exhausted.”
I just was hoping for one. I got him. So I asked her, I was like, “What’s the process now? Do I get to drive back across town with the cryo tank and take the embryos back to the… and she was like no, actually, you just… I’m gonna send a form over for you to sign to relinquish your rights to them, and they’ll be matched with someone else.
And the people getting them, it will be their responsibility, just like it was yours when they were for you. And so they’ll pay to ship them or, and essentially, you don’t have to know. And so they were like we paid the storage on them for a couple more months, and then I didn’t even get an email or anything.
It was like they were just, they got whs- whisked away, and I’ll never know if they, were babies for another family. I hope they were. I learned that’s how that part of the process at least typically goes when you have extras after trying with donated embryos.
They-
Jamie: Yeah …
Jen: move on to someone else, which is great.
Jamie: And you feel complete closure with just your one?
Jen: Yeah. I’m really glad. I’ve since had a couple friends since I’ve had him, get pregnant with a second or third, and I did… Before that happened, I was like, “I wonder, I hope I don’t feel like, a twinge of jealousy,” and I was thrilled because I didn’t.
I’m not jealous at all. I’m like, I never wanna be postpartum again. I never wanna have to go through labor again. I love my son so much. I love him so much, and I do not need to parent another child. I think it’s great they went to somebody else.
We… We’re really fostering a relationship with his bio sister. Our friends who donated their embryos, we get them together every kind of six weeks or six to eight weeks, and we have a picnic in a park or come, go to someone’s house for dinner, go to the zoo together, and they are just so adorable together and they know. She’s “This is my brother. We have different mamas ’cause you’re his mama and my mama is my mama.”
And it’s just, it’s beautiful. We’re just gonna keep fostering that bond. And he has his much older sisters in our family, so in a s- it’s like I have an only child, but he’s also not completely. Yeah. And it’s just cr- really cool. Like I said earlier, it’s like we’re, this is the new frontier of what family can be, one of the many ways it can be, and it’s like I’m so lucky to get to, to see how this grows and moves forward.
But it will not grow with me having another baby. That will not be part- … of how we continue to grow as a family. And yeah, I’m, like, totally at peace with that.
Jamie: What has been your biggest challenge being pregnant over 40?
Jen: I think the biggest challenge was just being worried. I developed gestational diabetes, which was definitely a challenge. And I think I was lucky they did not really treat me like a super geriatric pregnant woman. But also that’s just in society, right? That’s around us, and so some of it was in my own head.
I think I was, like, a little bit where “Can I actually do this?” Or “Are some people judge-” thinking I’m way too old to be doing this. And I and it’s the, you call it your inner saboteur, right? Yeah. It was like that little devil on your shoulder, and it was like, Don’t listen to that voice. You are doing this. And women older than you are doing this and have done this.” And it’s… This is happening.
Jamie: Is there anything you’d recommend that would prepare someone for pregnancy and birth over 40?
Jen: I would definitely say if you know anyone who has done it, even if you were like, “I know they did it, and I was their friend while they were doing it,” right? Once you’re like, “Oh now I’m pregnant or trying to be pregnant,” it’s like I would actually listen a lot harder this time and pay closer attention to what you have to say.
And your podcast and other podcasts like it. I listened to so many fertility and pregnancy podcasts, and hearing people’s stories, any advice people have and, if what resonates with you is great, and what doesn’t, it’s also great. Don’t try it if it’s…
it’s like the acupuncture thing, right? I have a couple friends that said they hated it. They were not relaxed on the table. I was like yeah, you should stop if it’s supposed to… If that’s counterproductive,” one person’s yum is another person’s yuck. So I think it’s really good to bear in mind to get all that intel from people and sources and experts and then really see what really resonates with you and feels good in your body and comfortable for you and lean into those things.
And stuff that’s not helpful or just feels tedious… if you ever did seed cycling, it was like eat sunflower seeds twice a day, two tablespoons in the luteal phase or… And then this seed and I might be making… And I did that for a little while, and I was like, “Oh, this is actually just really stressing me out and annoying me.” Like- … I’m just gonna put seeds on my salad sometimes like I normally do. And it was, like, great ’cause sometimes I feel like I have to do all the homework and all the things they recommend, and it was like- no, actually, I think if I do less, I’m gonna feel a lot less stressed out.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And so yeah.
Get listening to others but listening to yourself and definitely giving yourself permission to let it go for a while or let it go completely if it’s not serving you and it’s stressing you out.
Jamie: Yeah. That’s perfect. Now, what advice would you give yourself when you were pregnant if you could go back?
Jen: I would encourage myself to be less intent on trying to be at the birth center at the hospital and less intent on trying to stick with natural birth and avoid- an epidural. I also think if I could go back in time, I would tell myself that, and she would say yeah. But I’m gonna totally…
That’s what I’m gonna try to do. But I would endeavor to tell myself to try to relax about that part and just focus on a safe, healthy delivery for baby and you. And I think I would encourage myself to be more mindful of sugar intake and try to avoid getting gestational diabetes. That is much easier said than done, again.
Yeah. So I don’t know how helpful that advice would’ve really panned out, but I think those are two things that I just, if they could’ve gone a little differently, it probably would’ve been helpful for me.
Jamie: We have a lot of women trying to conceive over 40, and you had over a six-year journey. What do you say to those women who are trying?
Jen: I try to really stay hopeful and positive. My husband says I was relentlessly positive and hopeful on the journey. That’s how he describes it when people ask us about what was it like, and he was like, “She was relentlessly hopeful and positive and persistent.” And I think that’s mostly true.
But but also sometimes you’re gonna yell and kick and scream and swear. I was not positive with blinders on, and I would get frustrated, and I would get envious of pregnancy announcements on the journey. I don’t now, but, So I, I would say if there’s a support group near you, there’s a lot of support groups.
Working with a therapist is great. Working with a fertility coach can be great. That’s what I do now. I’ve pivoted into fertility coaching. ‘Cause I think sometimes we don’t wanna tell our family or our sisters or best friends, and sometimes we do. I did, but they’re also invested in you getting pregnant and have a stake in it, in the way that a therapist, a fertility coach, and even, your team of doctors, while they don’t want you to call them up all the time ’cause they’re about the medical part.
But those people are on your side in a way where they’re not so emotionally invested and can really just be there for you-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … and support you. ‘Cause it can be a long, hard road.
Jamie: It can.
Jen: As and really hard. And no one can tell you how long it will be, and no one can guarantee that at the end there’s a baby, and that sucks.
And when I would really sit in that on the road to a baby, as I would imagine you can probably relate to that’s a awful… That’s a sticky, icky, yucky place to sit and hold space for-
Jamie: Yeah
Jen: … and be like, “Okay, what if I don’t have a baby?” Which leads me to one other thing I think, I was open to traditional adoption.
I was open to embryo adoption. My husband didn’t wanna do traditional adoption again. He was just more interested in having a different experience, so I was happy to accommodate that since he was very happy to accommodate me getting my dream of having a baby. And again, some people just want their own biological baby or they’re like, “That’s it.”
But for anyone who’s not sure or hasn’t really thought about those other doors down the hallway of your fertility journey, I would just encourage people to really meditate on that and sit with that or pray about it if you’re religious, meditate on it if you’re more spiritual or what and think what you might be open to.
I’ve met a lot of people who will say “Oh, I used to say I’d never do IVF.” “If I can’t just get pregnant easy, then I’m not meant to have babies, and I’m not gonna do it.” And they’re like, “Do you wanna meet my three IVF babies? And one’s from a donor egg, and donor– This one’s donor sp…”
Yeah, I also when I was younger, had these arbitrary it’ll happen like that and that’s how I want it to happen. And that our hearts can really… And mo- for most people, I think our hearts are just can be so opened and can expand so much and family is like actually so little of that is biological, and it can be none of that.
Like it’s love and connection, and there’s so many ways to grow a family.
Jamie: That’s perfect. Would you like to tell us about your practice and how you help women?
Jen: Oh, I would love to. Yes. Thanks, Jaime. I call it a fertility coach. It’s like a doula for the journey and the process of trying to get pregnant, hopefully getting and staying pregnant. And so I work with people one-on-one, and you can do just a la carte appointments for support in a time when you’re, like, really faced with that big decision.
Do we keep trying our eggs and sperm, or the doctor said we should consider donor eggs, and I don’t know. I can help on a one-on-one one-time appointment with things like that or meet with you weekly, every other week, and just again, be your advocate, be your support as you walk through, what you don’t know.
How many woods do you have to crawl through? How many mountains do you have to climb? And I’m also, for my clients, I do unlimited text and email support. So when you can’t call the doctor or the agency and say, “When am I getting my match?” You can text me or email me and say “I wanna scream.”
And I’m gonna be with you shortly and say “Let’s scream.” You can call me and scream, or let’s troubleshoot what are some things… what are three kind things you can do for yourself this week while you’re waiting that will of course, not distract you completely, but what are, can we…
action steps and kind actions for ourself we can do. So it’s a doula, a coach, a guide on, on the path to, like I said, hopefully welcoming a baby into your life.
You can find me on, at my website which is jenrichardsfertility.com, and I’m @jenrichardsfertility on Instagram.
Jamie: We do have a few Instagram questions.
Jen: Sure.
Jamie: Okay. We just have two. One of them says, “How do you talk to your child about this as they grow up?”
Jen: There are some great books that have been written. And some are very specifically you came into our life through, embryo donation or donor sperm. And then there are some that are a little more like that whole umbrella, right? The whole sort of ART fertility. And I think those are great. We don’t read them to our son yet because they’re, he’s just not quite there to where those books are written at. But they’re really most of them are geared at age two to three and up.
So we, they’re on his bookshelf. We have them. And we talk openly about how we had him, like, when he’s a, like I completely, like I’ve just spoken with you, if he’s in the room I don’t change anything that I would say. When our friends and their daughter and us are all together, like I said, we talk to them about how y- you get your brother and sister, but you have different- Oh, so
Jamie: you refer to her as a sister?
Jen: Yeah. We sometimes say bio sis or sister.
Jamie: Okay.
Jen: Yeah. And it’s but yeah, you have different, a different mama and pops and, m- mom and dad, and you have, you live in different houses, but you guys are connected. And she’s six, so she, like I said, she’s much more like- … keenly aware of what that means and just thinks it’s cool.
Kids are so open and like receptive to new concepts. Like kids I know are like got the whole like when we started shifting pronouns and it would be like this and so is they/them. And the kids get it right away. And they’re just like… And I would sometimes trip up ’cause I’d be like, oh, this change just happened and I’m trying really hard and I don’t wanna misspeak or misstep, but ugh, and the kids are like, “Remember? They’re they/them.” And then just back to the- Yeah,
Jamie: they remember
Jen: … stories we’re telling. Like- Yeah … like it’s whatever. Like it’s- Yeah … no big deal. And it’s like great. They, it’s normal to them, and it’s really normal to them ’cause like they are bio brother and sister, and we’re just all out in the open with it and excited about it, and all get along great and want them to stay connected.
So we’ll just talk to him more and more about it and answer his questions as he gets older. And I just think, I just remember like when I was a kid in the ’80s and s- it would be like someone found out they were adopted by finding a box in a closet. And it was traumatic, but it’s yeah, because it was like this big secret and it was like-
In hindsight, like that doesn’t, I don’t want it to be in a box in the closet. I want the opposite of that.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jen: And kids are really open and receptive and- … we’ll keep exploring that as he gets older.
Jamie: I love that. Laura also says, I’m doing this too. I’m 46. She loves this connection.
Jen: Oh, Laura, that, I love to hear that. I’m sending you all the good wishes and fertile energy and vibes. And you know what? It’s for- mid-40s is a great time to have a baby. I will also say, and I don’t know if you feel this way, Jamie, like- I am not as energetic as I was in my 20s, but I have had my adult life.
I have done so much, and I feel so ready to focus on a child. And people are like do you feel like you still have bucket list things you wanna do?” And it’s no. I did I got so much travel in. I did so much, and I’m so emotionally mature, and so is my husband. And, yes, are we energetically a little less energetic?
But my wisdom and emotional maturity is so evolved from when I was younger, and I can parent so much differently because of that and really be present for a child. And so Laura, I think just wishing you well, and that’s one of the best parts about being an older parent is just oh, it’s all about you, little one. And great. We’re ready for that.
Jamie: Jen, do you have anything else to say before we wrap up?
Jen: I don’t think so, Jamie, but I’ve had so much fun talking to you. I love your podcast, and I think this is just, such wonderful stories and a way to just put support out there for women who’ve gone through it, who are going through it, who think they’re getting ready to go through it.
Right? We’re, we are all in this together, and the fertility community, I think, is just beautiful and so strong. I welcome anyone who listens to this that wants to DM me on Instagram or email me through my website. And even just with a question I’m always happy to connect with people, just even socially and outside of a professional capacity.
I really welcome people sharing their stories and connecting with me.
Jamie: Jen, you have such a touching story. It’s a beautiful … Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
Jen: Oh, you’re so welcome. It was my pleasure.